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Garen's Villain Mechanic doesn't really feel like it fits Garen's version of Demacia...

Sageace·12/9/2018, 10:17:25 PM·56 votes·15,061 views

It makes him feel more like an Avenger. The literal fact that I have to let an Ally die just so that I can do my job "truly" better is bullshit.

  • Garen ALWAYS gives his all. So why is it for his gameplay that AFTER a comrade dies does Garen decide to finally give out his "true" potential?
  • Garen is a leader of the Vanguard. So why is it the Villain mechanic ENCOURAGING me to feel so narrow-minded and focused on one (or zero) Villain(s)?
  • Garen is a man that brings justice. So why is it that the GAME forces the villain on me, when I, the PLAYER, have a better idea on who the VILLAIN TRULY IS?
  • Why is the term "Villain" "TRULY" limited to the killer? Because sometimes that's JUST NOT THE CASE...

I have always believed the Juggernaut update harmed Garen's overall "True Theme" and character while balancing out his overall Gameplay ("eventually..."). I feel the very removal of the Villain Mechanic will balance out Garen's Character and his theme as a man of justice, because Avenging your comrades is not really justice. Real Justice is to Unify your comrades, Protect them with your Strength, and have the Courage to face the ACTUAL Villains responsible standing against Demacia upon the Fields of Justice!

46 Comments

FOR JUSTICE12/9/2018, 10:19:04 PM13 votes

to be fair, you cant be a villain in any context without doing something bad first.

Wild Geese12/10/2018, 7:33:24 AM10 votes

I've always thought Garen should have an aura buff for allies; like the harder Garen fights the harder his allies will fight.

Example: For every second Garen takes or does damage with an ally near by, all allies within a 1200 aoe radius gain 3% movespeed, 3% armor and magic resist, and 3% adaptive damage, stacking up for 5 times (15%). Refreshes upon taking or doing damage and drops one stack every 1.5 seconds.

This would fit his theme perfectly, it would also make his gameplay more team oriented.

Larriet12/10/2018, 2:38:39 AM6 votes

I like your read of the character! I'm all for improving narrative design in the game (that's when you have gameplay match the theme of a character, to put it simply). It's important to people who are heavily invested give their opinions on such things.

No comment on the suggestion itself; I don't play Garen so I'll abstain.

Romans VI XXIII12/10/2018, 6:12:46 AM2 votes

"Villain" needs to be renamed "Demacian Justice" and by applied to targets hit by Q for X seconds. Keep it tethered to his R but proced via Q. So that his justice is truly who ever it needs to be against.

Obvious small balance tweaks would be needed, but I think this would be a good change in the right direction for him.

Critmaster Garen12/18/2018, 4:11:42 AM2 votes

id trade garens villainy passive for the following:

  • atmas reckoning passive to make him ramp up over the course of a fight
  • removal of the resistance cap on his w passive
  • attack speed scaling on his e to give him more spins with attack speed, to bring his crit build back (not technically a buff since it doesnt factor into his existing builds)

another possibility id like is to trade the armor shred on his spin for 1% max health physical damage on spins and auto attacks. if garen wants armor shred, we have cleaver.

Noor Sakata12/9/2018, 10:29:13 PM2 votes

I like it as how it is Yes his ally died and then he wanted to revenge , this is war ,whether you are good or bad , at the end what you are doing is killing we all at the same way anyway , we get rage against someone when we lose someone important

FakeGravity12/10/2018, 2:31:20 AM2 votes

lets change the name of the mechanic to avenging wrath, or they could just rework garen into something different? what if the villain mechanic was to be change to a choice out of combat that cant be the last champion garen dealt damage to, and after he be out of combat it force him to pick someone else

example, garen pick darius as his target villain, garen goes to lane, he deal damage to darius (true damage due how it works) he leaves combat, darius can no longer be garen's target until garen at least hit someone else

Lon Wick 12/10/2018, 5:26:41 PM2 votes

{quoted}

It makes him feel more like an Avenger. The literal fact that I have to let an Ally die just so that I can do my job "truly" better is bullshit.

Except, if there's no crime there's no reason to punish someone.

  • Garen ALWAYS gives his all. So why is it for his gameplay that AFTER a comrade dies does Garen decide to finally give out his "true" potential?

A hero never gives their all until they need to. That goes for everything forever, including Garen.

  • Garen is a leader of the Vanguard. So why is it the Villain mechanic ENCOURAGING me to feel so narrow-minded and focused on one (or zero) Villain(s)?

Because you choose to. Garen is great even if he's not focusing the villain. It just makes it easier.

  • Garen is a man that brings justice. So why is it that the GAME forces the villain on me, when I, the PLAYER, have a better idea on who the VILLAIN TRULY IS?

Because you, the player could be wrong. I MEAN THERE'S AN IRON TIER NOW HA.

  • Why is the term "Villain" "TRULY" limited to the killer? Because sometimes that's JUST NOT THE CASE...

Because you're playing a video game.

TBH it just feels like you're nitpicking over something you don't like. That's boards, though. "My reasoning for why this is bad beats your reasoning for why it's good."

Ignika D12/10/2018, 8:01:39 PM2 votes

but if you choose the villain woudnt you just villain the enemy top laner and win everymacth up and get back to the release juger garen problem lol

Kled Man Walking12/11/2018, 9:12:22 PM2 votes

not a garen player, but yeah, the villain mechanic is silly. getting punished for playing well doesn't feel good, especially when garen is the only person you're killing (so much for selflessness...)

and while i think it fits his portrayal in stuff like his color story, it doesn't really make him "feel" like a paladin, a knight of demacia. it's be a fine mechanic on an old-west lawman type, but i think garen should be about fighting to the last man and not giving up even in the face of adversity. so maybe increasing the armor shred on his E based on the bounty of the target? so that, even if he goes down valiantly spinning against the fed enemy kled (to give a completely unbiased example, ofc ;] ) his team might have a chance to focus him down afterwards, since his resistances have been ruined.

i'd love to hear your thoughts on this, as you'd definitely know more about the validity of it than i would

Danyoja12/15/2018, 9:32:07 AM2 votes

I never liked the villiany mechanic just for the sole fact that it depends on teammates dying. While I know it rare for a teammate not to die, Garen had to get a bit of power taken away for a mechanic that needs a teamate/mates to get behind. The worst part is he can't even Jungle, so if bot lane is the villain then what do you with that until team fights, all the mechanic does is give yourself a target in a team fight but since they know the villain they'll just keep their eye on you.

I'd like to revert back to previous Garen with higher base movespeed, no armor shred, %increase to armor and MR instead of flat from farming (I get that farming is his OG mechanic) and no villainy. TBH I didn't even know the issue with old Garen, people have the same complaints about him now as they did on the original version of him (both for and against) and adding this "full power when my team plays bad" mechanic didn't do much to change his play style.

Ifneth12/11/2018, 12:55:58 AM1 votes

Yeah. Just make it a combo. If Garen stacks his E on you, then he can get the big, true-damage sword with R.

Hayaishi212/10/2018, 1:00:39 PM1 votes

You are looking at the villain mechanic from an strictly lore point of view which is unfair. Riot cant always balance around lore.

SmashBrosURFace12/10/2018, 8:11:27 PM1 votes

So to all the true Garen players out there, hear me out and hopefully it can change Garen into what he was meant to be. Please give feedback on this guys, I want to find a great solution for Riot!

First, we all know his Q and R animations are problematic.

Second, the villian mechanic just doesn't feel rewarding enough in most situations. Some consider the damage ouput great, others eh. It also feels like there are some contradictions to who he is (as outlined above). For the most part between the first and second issues Garens R is the most problematic for almost all players.

Solution: First fix the Q animation, it sucks when you think you have properly silenced the enemy as you make for a quick getaway or poke and realize you did nothing to the other champ! (sorry had to vent)

R Solution: Keep the villian mechanic but make it feel more meaningful to a group fight by adding an additional dynamic. Here's what I'm thinking...

Keep the animation delay, I know it sounds crazy but hear me out. When Garen uses his R on the villian, give it some AOE. Cause champs within a certain range to be thrown outwards radially, increasing the range thrown by how close the champs is to the impact radius. It would add some awesome effect with the delay and animation of his R ( like he had to build up all this power to execute the villian which would contribute to the added villian damage effect), give it some additional dynamic in team fight scenarios (like those times your villian is a tanky SOB on a tanky damage over time team build and you just need to isolate that one Target to focus them down to start shaking the game up, or those moments where you team could make a great play if you could only get the enemies spread out a bit), and could play into making his ult fit his character story better. Add a little slow after they land or some instant HP Regen to offset the dive into the middle of dangerous situations to catch the villian. Add a leap animation to it too during the forever long delay for added effect. Making him smash into the battle field with all the might of Damacia!

Thoughts!? [darius-angry]

Ignika D12/10/2018, 1:16:15 PM1 votes

revert garen but keep the regen passive and armor pen from spin

Sire Hippington12/10/2018, 1:59:38 PM1 votes

it doesn't fit from gameplay(heavy target specific boost on a champ with one off the worst target acces in the game), and it doesn't fit thematically, and worst of all it feels horrible to play against(atleast as melee) cause you get punished for doing the right thing... They really should scrap that mechanic and do another soft rework for garen.

He's the leader of the vanguard, and idoal and inspiration for all Demacia, yet nothing in his kit reflects him leading his people. Giving him some allie buffs would be fitting and help giving him some more teamfight impact and utillity without boosting his 1v1, and his kit offers plenty options for that:

-Some MS boost towards enemies for nearby allies on his Q -Maybe let his W redirect a small % off the damage nearby allies take onto him self(item 3109 in aoe) -Let W give half of the imidate damage reduction and tenacity to nearby allies(the boost in the first .75sec) so a good timed W can help you're team vs stuff like Neekos Ult. -Some AoE boost on a succesfull Execute with the ult could also be nice.

There would be so many options to shift his kit into beeing a bit more supportive and more fitting for an inspiring leader, and all riot can come up with is a non fitting way of dealing even more damage...

MrGerund12/10/2018, 4:00:31 PM1 votes

R

justi... oh wait you're the villain, hold up scrapes throat

J U S T I C E .

Zero Skill Tank12/10/2018, 4:08:18 PM1 votes

Villain as a mechanic shouldn't exists to begin with. It's literally the worst gameplay there is in LoL, punishing you absurdly if you are doing well on a melee, and being mostly irrelevant in any other scenario.

The counterplay is literally to hope that your mage is the one that gets fed.