An Idea on How to Balance the New Liandry's on PBE

Wall of text ahead. This took me a while to type out and II ended up editing things multiple times but I wanted to be clear on why I chose this certain change as well as the pros and cons it would bring. I also added balance levers riot could use in order to change the item in the future if it ever became too weak or too strong.

I think a lot of us are quite worried about the new iteration of that hit the PBE a couple days ago. I know there's a thread posted by a rioter but that's about all the general ap items and champion matchups. I wanted to create a discussion about an interesting way I thought to balance this item so please respond with your comments, concerns, or even your own balance idea below once you've read my proposal.

Main goals of Liandry's changes:

1. Be more balanceable overall
2. Keep its strong damage-over-time focus
3. Not be an effective damage amplifier on most burst or poke champions
4. Be a viable option on champions other than just those who would use it every game

NOTE: simple number adjustments such as a nerf to the % max health damage Liandry's deals almost certainly won't be enough to actually balance this item and will likely either leave the current iteration to be disgusting on certain champions or leave the item in an underpowered state where only the biggest abusers will make any use of the item.

We want this item to function well and be strong when used correctly and not allow... Let's say... to press R and delete a champion without fully committing to a fight.

Additionally, I'll try and point out those outlier champions who would abuse this version of as well as those who would suffer as a result and if you post your own iteration then please do the same.

For clarity, here are some of the main intended users of this item: D.O.T. mages should be the main intended users but ap bruisers and battle mages should be able to consider as a viable option

Here are some of the more... unintended users:

Why aren't these the intended users?

Burst mages are not the targeted users when itemizing for the strong damage over time effect Liandry's provides as they are designed around killing their target quickly rather than chipping away at their health pool.

Poke mages should have to work more for the max hp shred the item provides than simply landing one ability from across the screen

What about tanks such as or ?

Tanks can choose to opt into the item as they should realistically survive long enough to make some use of the passive but they should obviously be left more vulnerable when choosing the damage option over a superior damage-mitigating item.

NOTE: This isn't to say these champions can't or shouldn't ever build this item. It is to say that they would have to adopt a more atypical play pattern, build, and/or gameplan to make use of Liandry's in a meaningful way

So here is my current idea on changing Liandry's Torment:

Recipe: + + 750g (overall cost unchanged)

300 hp 60 ap 5% movespeed 10% cooldown reduction

Unique passive- Torment: Your damaging spells and abilities against enemy champions grant a stack of Torment. After acquiring 5 stacks of Torment your damaging spells will burn enemies for 2 seconds dealing 2% of their maximum health as magic damage each second. This burn damage is doubled against movement-impaired units. All stacks are lost after no damage is dealt within 2 seconds. Auto attacks will not grant any stacks or apply the burn damage but will refresh the timer.

What's different:

1. No Essence Drain effect (2%-10% bonus damage over 5 seconds)
2. The burn passive can only be stacked against champions
3. 5% movement speed added
4. No burn effect until passive is activated
5. Burn effect only lasts 2 seconds instead of 3
6. Auto attacks are somewhat involved
7. Less ability power
8. Cooldown reduction added

Why these changes:

1. The Essence Drain effect seems tacked on when the burn passive is the main focus of the item and the % max hp damage is already incredibly strong by itself
2. Hitting a minion with an ability in order to keep or gain stacks of Torment would cheapen the effect of the item
3. Movespeed benefits champions who need to weave in and out of battles in order to keep the passive up while they deal damage. It simply benefits the core play pattern of battle mages and damage-over-time champions while allowing for another balance-lever if riot didn't want to touch the ap or health the item provides.
4. Poke abilities dealing percent max health damage to targets without any condition other than hitting one ability would probably be cancer to play against. Such powerful effects should remain gated in some manner. Additionally, champions like Malzahar should not deal a massive percentage or of your maximum health simply by clicking one button and walking away; they need to stay and fight.
5. Two seconds for burn damage meshes better with the 2 second timer of stacks falling off and makes mages put themselves in harms way more often to keep the effect going. Also effectively gives a nerf to the burn damage.
6. General balancing point- not all mages can be expected to hit their abilities 100% of the time and need some way to keep the stacks going if they do happen to miss. Also, it's ridiculous to expect any non-D.O.T. mages to be able to be able to maintain a constant 2 second stream of damage. To not include this would make the item extraordinarily weak on everyone except for the few damage over time mages and maybe a few mages who will need to perfectly space out all their abilities and try to get 40-45% cdr as soon as possible in order to even hope to use the burn passive.
7. Less ability power will shut Hashinshin up act as a disincentive to champions who scale better with raw ability power which lets this item be more about that burn passive.
8. Although CDR is currently plentiful in League (possibly too much so), this version of Liandry's relies on the uptime of champion abilities in order to deal it's constant burn damage. The lower ability power and lack of immediate burn damage justifies the addition of cooldown reduction to this item

Potential balance levers for this version of Liandry's if it is too strong or too weak:

1. Tweak the base stats
2. Make the build path more or less challenging to complete
3. Increase/decrease overall cost
4. Tweak the number of Torment stacks needed to begin the burn damage
5. Tweak the speed in which one can build Torment stacks by either: a .adding a static cooldown to stack generation b. making aoe abilities only apply one stack if it hits multiple targets c. making damage over time abilities only apply one stack per second
6. Tweaking the duration of the burn effect
7. Changing the time for stacks to fall off
8. Tweaking the rate at which the Liandry's burn damage ticks
9. Altering the actual burn damage
10. Make the stacks apply on a champion-by-champion basis (simply attaining 5 stacks of Torment on one enemy champion will not allow you to deal max health damage against another enemy champion without them also having 5 stacks of Torment)

Here are some champions who can alter their play patterns to make use of this version of Liandry's - consider this sort of like riot's runes reforged videos where they try to give examples of more unique-styled play:

Not typically considered a D.O.T. mage but Viktor is a champion who likes weaving in and out of fights while dealing damage. His short cd Q makes him generate and maintain stacks of Liandry's throughout a fight. His Q shield and the added movespeed should allow The Machine Herald to better stay out of harms way while fishing for some juicy Death Rays. Viktor's ultimate is a damage over time ability and it, when coupled with the improved Liandry's burn, can deal some serious damage to whoever is in the vicinity. The ult can be used to generate stacks of Torment or Viktor can try and hold off until all stacks have been accounted for in order to unleash a truly destructive chaos storm.

Swain's Ultimate and his new Q let's him quickly generate and maintain stacks of Torment throughout a fight. With Swain's innate sustain, area-of-effect damage, and improved crowd control options he can tactfully walk towards his enemies like never before.

Here are some champions who will be hurt from this change:

FUCK YEAH! Teemo has been able to chunk any unsuspecting passerby's health by a gigantic amount from across the map with one well-placed mushroom and the immediate % current health damage from old Liandry's. Teemo will have to set up back-to-back traps in order to destroy a target's healthpool in the same manner as before or strategically lie in ambush next to his minefield... waiting to pounce at the opportune moment.

Vel's Q and ultimate both slow on hit and this allowed immediate access to Liandry's full-powered burn in the past. Vel'Koz can still opt into this item to destroy those tanky champions to an even greater extent than he does now but his poke will somewhat suffer. Aiming for a low-cooldown build may allow him to sustain and make use of his stacks after blowing his true-damage load on a tank.

Honorable mentions:

Obviously this guy has been a big balance concern since the PBE announcement but this version of Liandry's would not work with his Ultimate alone until its duration was half over which would significantly lower his effectiveness of flash>ulting a squishy as we have all seen in the clip. Morde would actually need to get his metal ass in the fight in order to achieve this sort of damage. Let's also remember the 10% damage boost is also missing from this version as well. It's worth mentioning Mordekaiser needs a full VGU as we all know so let's hope riot does something about him sooner rather than later so he doesn't have to get nerfed into oblivion.

Brand is a strange hybrid of a D.O.T. champion and a burst mage. Apparently he is disgusting with the current PBE Liandry's and he will likely succeed almost just as much with this version as well. Balance options for this champion are likely plentiful but I personally lack the experience and insight needed to gauge how this particular champion will/should likely need to change if a % max hp damage version of Liandry's ever makes it to live.