If mana gating comes back, Zed won't have to get nerfed and everyone's happy.

xLegendary Troll·1/13/2015, 8:46:36 AM·7 votes·1,619 views

Nerf after nerf. I don't understand. Just a few months ago nobody said anything about Zed and now he's on top of Riot's priority list for nerfs.

Why not bring back the old mana regen, that way everyone is happy. Once the assassins get nerfed, who's next? Azir? Kayle? Urgot? Ashe?

I really didn't see the point of reworking regeneration. What was the point? So far it's just brought a lot of confusion and frustration. I almost never see anyone building hp regen anyways.

Thoughts?

35 Comments

FalconPawwwwnch1/13/2015, 8:59:02 AM8 votes

Yea everyone was happy

If by everyone you mean only mage mains that abused Athene's

I loved not being able to finish games because Ziggs perma wave cleared for 2 centuries

SexyTaylorSwift1/13/2015, 1:25:50 PM3 votes

I agree. It is a huge cycle of nerfs in this game for no reason. I agree that Zed is really strong right now, but there was no where near the amount of bitching about him before this whole mana thing. They did it because a couple champs like Ziggs. So, instead of changing those couple champs, they fucked around with the whole idea of mana and created a lot more problems. Same thing happened to WW. He was strong, yes. But, he was strong because of the jungle, not because of WW. Same thing with Fiddles (that and people not wanting to lose their 100% build to shut him down very very easily). I don't know. I'm sick of seeing things like Lee dominating the jungle since I started playing over 2 years ago or Thresh dominating support lane, yet the nerf fucking Sona. I really don't get it at all.

Drunk Rummate1/13/2015, 3:31:46 PM3 votes

I really didn't see the point of reworking regeneration. What was the point? So far it's just brought a lot of confusion and frustration. I almost never see anyone building hp regen anyways.

Thoughts?

Can't speak on HP regeneration, but mana regeneration was reworked for 2 reasons in particular.

Rushing chalice in mid led to uninteractive laning. Magic resist with infinite mana for waveclear and no additional AP led to just farming and no fighting.
Infinite mana at all stages of the game led to infinite waveclear and stalling which made games last significantly longer than they currently do.

I don't think bringing mana regeneration to where it was is the 'solution' to assassins, because it just puts us back where we started with a waveclear meta and hypercarry ADCs. I think a better solution would be to slightly adjust the base damage of some spells on mages so that they deal meaningful damage for the mana that they spend. Currently a champion like Zed can deal more damage in a full WEQ rotation with a longsword than most mages with a more expensive doran's ring, and he (Zed) has no long term penalty for spamming that ability while mages will quickly run out of mana for using anything beyond a single ability per cooldown cycle. So you either reduce the base damage on assassins and tune up their scaling, or you rework energy, or you increase the base damage on mages IMO.

People complain about him a lot, but I think Fizz is actually a very well designed assassin. His laning phase is very easy to punish, he has clear mana gating, and his escape is tied into his damage meaning he has to choose between one or the other. Fizz's balance only becomes questionable once he finishes his Zhonya's Hourglass, but that's more a problem with the item than the champion itself. Zed, comparatively, has a strong laning phase, his escape is tied to his damage so that he gets both and does not have to make a decision when going all in, and he has minimal resource gating to speak of. It's really difficult to justify all that.

AHeroNamedHawke1/13/2015, 9:30:27 AM3 votes

They can adjust the current items to ease mana problems if needed

I'd rather not go back to "well I have to rush a regen item and when I do mana is meaningless for the rest of the game"

SleepyLionCub1/13/2015, 8:56:50 PM2 votes

dont bring them back to their original forms, however increase the AP given to mana items in general. Also branch the Mana and cooldown reduction item sets so there is more items that give AP and 20% cdr without giving mana regen.

Chaotic Reks1/13/2015, 1:19:44 PM2 votes

MUNDO HIT HARD BY REGEN REWORK

Solaxo1/13/2015, 2:52:49 PM2 votes

Sadly, Riot will never admit mistakes

Zakennayo1/13/2015, 2:56:18 PM1 votes

Why not just build item 3070 ?

Junkο1/13/2015, 3:18:25 PM1 votes

"Riot's priority list for nerfs" or the community OP bandwagon?

Fertsa1/13/2015, 1:43:55 PM1 votes

The new athenes forces it's user to build more mana to be very useful. that's really all that's changed.

Cindikle1/13/2015, 3:55:36 PM1 votes

The changes to mana regen cannot go back. It was not healthy for the game.

Might as well turn the game into Dawngate and remove all mana costs. Only way they're going to really balance it at that point. Not that I would mind. It was one of the fun factors of Dawngate. But if we're keeping mana. It can't be unlmited.

The overall change buffed mana regen outside of Chalice. But it also left Chalice is a horribly weak state to where only one regen item is viable. It just can't be left regening off total mana the way it does.

This change caused 3 champions to become a little too strong. Zed is the obvious one. Fizz never built mana regen, so this was a buff for him. And Akali who has fallen out of favor of the hate train.

Fizz and Akali would be fine if the kits weren't so toxic to play vs. Zed should see some balance changes. Mostly in the way his energy works, not his damage.

LelouchtheGreat1/13/2015, 4:53:09 PM1 votes

Has anyone ever thought about making zed's ability to switch places with his shadow cost him additional energy? Like it costs him the same energy to create a shadow as normal, but it costs him more energy when he switches with it. Im by no means a balance master but could this be a possible solution? that way if he uses all his energy to burst and then tries to back out he wouldn't be able to immediately, and in lane it would provide more openings for opponents to jump him or gank him without him freely escaping with W

xLegendary Troll1/13/2015, 5:21:52 PM1 votes

Thank you everyone for the responses. It seems like they reworked hp regen first and decided to do the same with mana regen. Champions that excelled in wave clear were a thing even in the LCS. It doesn't make sense why they would cripple a niche that was perfectly balanced.

Now everyone is being "balanced", when only one item was the problem. Chalice wasn't good because of its mana, but because it brought 3 utilities: (mr, CDR, and mana regen). 3 essential things for the price of one made it too good to pass up on.

Stevev451/13/2015, 8:34:51 PM1 votes

I think they could just switch Zed to mana and it would fix him.

DJ Siamak1/13/2015, 12:29:22 PM1 votes

Nobody built health regen anyways and the way things are now is more balanced since mages will actually run oom at some point.

Zed just needs a few nerfs to the damage his abilities do to minions and balanced.