If Banner of Command was removed for being too strong, why not remove Duskblade?

Gramps69·7/27/2018, 1:46:26 PM·96 votes·17,701 views

Here's the exact quote from Meddler when it was announced Banner would be removed:

As you might have seen we’re going to remove Banner from the game in 8.12, at least for the short-medium term. It’s an item that’s pretty consistently been either a poor choice or, when strong, been unhealthy for the game overall. Not impossible some heavily revised version returns someday, likely in a preseason or midseason if so. No immediate plans for that however.

or, when strong, been unhealthy for the game overall

or, when strong, been unhealthy for the game overall

127 Comments

Warlord Rhinark7/27/2018, 1:51:34 PM53 votes

Because it makes LCS "fun" and "exciting".

Tron897/27/2018, 1:51:14 PM20 votes

Because it's AD of course

Pika Fox7/27/2018, 1:52:23 PM13 votes

Banner was removed because it couldnt be balanced effectively. Duskblade is balanced people just like to QQ about it and percieve it to be stronger than it actually is. Big difference.

Aptest7/27/2018, 1:57:56 PM12 votes

Banner of command was not removed for being strong. It was removed for the impact it has on the game, WHEN it is otherwise also a good enough purchase.

Translation: if people can justify buying BOC as a general purchase on their champions, the game devolves into "chase the banner" as tank players can 1-up dedicated split pushing champions at the split pushing game, all the while being superior team fighter. This form of macro game is so strong that it warps the whole pick pool in the game in a direction players are not interested in (players want to play fighters, not tanks), and harms the "split push VS group" dynamics that forms a major part of the mid to late game macro play in this game.

In contrast, duskblade has a much more limited function - allow assassins to be better at killing opponents. In that respect it is not any different than other damage items.

ModCaptainMårvelous7/27/2018, 8:32:36 PM10 votes

I mean you're answering your own question:

As you might have seen we’re going to remove Banner from the game in 8.12, at least for the short-medium term. It’s an item that’s pretty consistently been either a poor choice or, when strong, been unhealthy for the game overall. Not impossible some heavily revised version returns someday, likely in a preseason or midseason if so. No immediate plans for that however.

Duskblade, as much as people like to screech about it, isn't unhealthy for the game the way banner was. More importantly, banner has had only two states: So useless that it's not worth picking/only an incredibly minor tech choice for certain match-ups or so busted everyone is picking it. While people will come barging in throwing all sorts of stats and feelings-post in my face, Duskblade never hit a point where 5 people were building it in pro-and-high-ranking matches.

You can hate duskblade, sure, but it didn't have the same problems banner had to even a remote degree.

Ahris7/27/2018, 4:01:19 PM9 votes

Ya better example is dfg. Dfg was removed cuz... ad champs were getting bursted by it.

Pokemonred2007/27/2018, 2:30:43 PM8 votes

Banner was removed because they didn't like the state the item was in and they felt that it needed to be reworked, but didn't think that they could give it any acceptable rework in the time frame they had, so it would be retired until Preseason at the earliest. Could see it again next year, who knows.

Duskblade is actually a fairly balanced item when it comes to burst on most of its non abuse cases (AKA champions with resetable stealth who can apply it more than once in rapid succession), even if it does too many other things (it's pretty damned good for Vision control)

Sire Hippington7/27/2018, 6:45:46 PM6 votes

As someone that likes playing assasins, i'm all for removeing duskblade, or atleast reworking it.

However, i don't think it's overall to strong right now though, the proc damage is quite overhyped. Trinity easily does 50% more damage at any stage of the game, Stormrazor does more damage if you have some sweet ad, and both hydras also offer more aditional burst, all of them with easier to meet conditions. The thing it has going for it are the ideal stats for ad-assasins compared to the other items and lowish costs.

So why do i want it to be removed? Simply because it offers more of the same for any ad-burst champ. It offers the stats you want paired with aditional upfront burst. This means if it's any good, ad-burst has to be balanced around it which then causes it' primary users to pay for it in theri kits and forces them to buy duskblade, lowering their itemisation options and often prhibiting more interesting choices. Another issue is the proc condition, which causes some champs to hyper-synergies with it, makeing their balance 100% dependend on the state of the item and forceing them to rush it as first or second item every game.

AirKingNeo7/27/2018, 5:24:10 PM5 votes

because Duskblade gives damage while Banner gives map pressure.

Two different concepts.

nyakasgoods7/27/2018, 2:42:28 PM5 votes

Because everyone in a game would rush Banner and the game would turn into 4-D chess except everyone's a pawn and it lasts an age and if you didn't have banners to counter their banners and they get exodia first you lose.

Duskblade is just a core item on a handful of champs.

Illabethe7/27/2018, 10:45:01 PM3 votes

It was removed because as "ideally designed" it was too strong.

When it was only immune to magic damage, that wasn't ideal design because it was broken vs Magic teams.

It was when they 70%'d it to both damage type.... it became too powerful for entire TEAMS. 5 man teams were buying 5 Banner of Commands, because 5 enhanced minions = super baron push you couldn't kill.

Duskblade is and never has been that. Duskblade was even nerfed. It's not why you are dying fast. It's the Electrocute/Ignite that accompany it.

Besteal7/27/2018, 11:55:13 PM3 votes

Difference is that with banner, you had 10 banners in each game. You certainly don't see that with duskblade.

CNV Nightstar7/28/2018, 2:48:32 AM3 votes

because dusk blade doesn't turn the game into a tower defense game and 10 people aren't buying it at high elos.

Modl Ryden l7/28/2018, 3:47:08 AM3 votes

Because you can't splash Duskblade on every champ and on every build.