I thought this was supposed to be a strategy game, not some Mortal Kombat clicking contest

MXXIV·2/19/2015, 5:56:54 PM·156 votes·8,821 views

I started playing this game more than 2 years ago (I don't even remember when I actually started), and back then many things you did had inevitable consequences. Like walking to the Garen infected bushes. Unless you had flash, you just were bound to get silenced and spin-to-wined. Or walking near Veigar without enough HP/MR/allies to help - Veigar in late-game was designed to 1v1 most of other squishy champions. But he was unable to contest 2 champions at a time (unless extra fed).

Back then, healthy counter-play was strategy, not fast button clicking. Back then cooperation, tactics and positioning payed off. Now the best you can do is pick a champion with blink and short cooldowns and press the shit out of your Q, W, E and R.

I have also noticed that diving turrets is now much easier - another stupid thing you can do if you can fast-click.

#Edit to clarify my thoughts (thanks for commenting!): I in no way wanted to say that the strategy should lay in counter picking champions. Of course, I'd prefer a game where two balanced teams have equal chance to win. But what I was trying to say that currently, chances to outsmart the other team are limited. You just have to land and doge skillshots, anything smart is considered troll and off-meta. When I played strategically with my friends, the enemy team called us trolls and said they will report us. Because strategy is now considered cheating!

152 Comments

THE GREAT SLOTH2/19/2015, 8:08:48 PM81 votes

HEY. I put a lot of effort into strategically rolling my face across the keyboard. If I'm playing Riven and I accidentally hit F with my nose, I blow my flash, and guess what happens? I only get a quadra kill instead of a pentakill. This negatively affects my KDA, and as every player knows, KDA is the only important thing in league of legends.

The last time my KDA wasn't good, I started to ask questions, such as: Who am I? Am I a support player? But if that's the case, then why do I never ward?

All that thinking did me no good. It was then that I was reminded that thinking about anything other than face rolling is a waste of time. As a future challenger player, I just have to… roll on.

Sooko2/19/2015, 5:59:49 PM61 votes

Thresh Get over here!

Raptamei2/19/2015, 5:59:09 PM44 votes

It's not a strategy game - champion select is supposed to have as little impact as possible, and champions that require strategy to beat are being changed to require only dodging skill to beat. Veigar Sion Soraka

The reason is that dodging skillshots looks flashier than making correct strategic decisions.

Retillin2/19/2015, 6:14:09 PM40 votes

{quoted}

** Back then, healthy counter-play was strategy, not fast button clicking. **Back then cooperation, tactics and positioning payed off. Now the best you can do is pick a champion with blink and short cooldowns and press the shit out of your Q, W, E and R.

This is my biggest gripe.

Ashes Arise2/19/2015, 9:19:04 PM28 votes

This is the type of thing that Riot desperately needs to have some internal discussion about. They are quickly turning their game into game where twitch reflexes are king. This is a great addition to the game, but it should NOT be the core philosophy behind balance. Champions like Veigar fall under the slower more strategic champs. He isn't about twitch reflexes. He is about positioning, timing, and strategy. If I wanted to play a game where twitch reflexes was everything. Id be playing a fighting game or an fps.

Riot. Please discuss this! Riot as a whole, has lost something. It is very clear to the community that something is very wrong with this season. This is the thing! It is a shift in philosophy where reflex>strategy. I love this game because it is a nice mix of these 2, but the reflex side is getting far too heavy. They need to be in balance.

Volt Cruelerz2/19/2015, 6:03:21 PM24 votes

It would be nice if at least some strategic champions were left alone...

Reikken2/19/2015, 11:28:56 PM10 votes

Strategy is not as exciting to watch as hyperfast action and tech skill. Riot has changed its focus since a few years ago. It is now focused on esports. You see where I'm going with this, right? Riot wants to make this game as exciting to watch as possible. If amping up the fast button mashing means removing strategy, then so be it.

Mandang02/19/2015, 7:46:28 PM9 votes

Wish I could upvote more than once!

Millea2/20/2015, 6:13:18 AM9 votes

It seems like everyone's agreeing with you. However, I have a different view. Hear me out.

back then many things you did had inevitable consequences. Like walking to the Garen infected bushes. Unless you had flash, you just were bound to get silenced and spin-to-wined. Or walking near Veigar without enough HP/MR/allies to help - Veigar in late-game was designed to 1v1 most of other squishy champions. But he was unable to contest 2 champions at a time (unless extra fed).

Let's say that today, Garen hides in a bush and ambushes a jungler. Instead of killing them, a similar situation now forces them to go back. You may argue that this reduces the strategy required in the game, but I'd say that it reduces snowballing, which used to be a much bigger issue than it currently is. There's still reasons not to go into the bush with a Garen in it. It just isn't as punishing. Secondly, if you make a mistake, you have a chance to reduce the size of your mistake. It isn't just a flat out "You're dead or you're not dead". I would agree that Garen's not anywhere near the best place right now and needs looking at by Riot. The passive buff was a good start.

Take Veigar at the current moment. He's one of the most annoying champions to play against. Why? He has a very long AoE stun with long range. If he gets fed, the counter to this is to stay far away from it and start saving up for a banshee's veil or qss. What can you do if you are 1600 units away from him? Probably not much. What if he's a good one and can use flash + stun + QWR? He can kill you instantly. That not only harms how fun the game is (Feels like you have no options due to earlier mistakes), but also harms strategy. The strategy against him is very simple compared to dealing with a similar fed champion, even though he may be harder to deal with. Against a Veigar, you kill him before you send your ADC or APC anywhere near him. He can 1 shot one champion unless he's killed before the full-on fight starts. Against a Syndra, who has a relatively similar kit, it's a lot more complicated to deal with. She has a long range stun, but it hits only one person unless people are forced to go into a small space by Syndra's (Or they made a mistake). She has warm-up time before her ultimate does its full damage, so she needs to be prepared. This means that an adc doesn't always need to stay far away from here, even if she's fed. A 3 sphere ult won't do too much damage compared to veigar combo. Squishies can still take a good amount of damage from this, so they need to be careful, but not so cautious that they're out of options.

It's all the difference of binary outcomes versus complex outcomes.

Back then cooperation, tactics and positioning payed off. Now the best you can do is pick a champion with blink and short cooldowns and press the shit out of your Q, W, E and R.

I'm not sure exactly what you're talking about here. Cooperation, tactics and positioning pay off the same as ever. The difference is that now, instead of 1 big mistake deciding the outcome of battles, it's a bunch of littler ones.

I have also noticed that diving turrets is now much easier - another stupid thing you can do if you can fast-click.

Think of all the complex tactics that are involved in diving a turret. It definitely isn't just fast clicking, or even fast clicking at all! It's teamwork and cooperation and reacting to the enemy all at once. Not only this, but also the timing of it. You need to have very good map awareness to tower dive in the early game because a gank can easily mean a double or triple kill for the enemy team. It adds a lot of strategy because both teams need to be concerned of enemies' positions.

You just have to land and dodge skillshots, anything smart is considered troll and off-meta.

Most skillshots are more about the enemy being out of position than you being in the right position. An ADC is not going to be anywhere in the neighborhood of a morgana snare in most teamfights.

What's smart that's considered trolling?

When I played strategically with my friends, the enemy team called us trolls and said they will report us. Because strategy is now considered cheating!

People say stuff, and people said stuff back then too. This is partly nostalgia speaking.

Ethri2/19/2015, 7:38:11 PM9 votes

I agree to a degree. There are usually strategic implications to champions at higher skill levels, but sometimes people without skill on those champions get away with using a kit in a cheesy manner but with a good outcome.

For example, I had a somewhat fed enemy Yasuo pull off a quadra-kill. He only managed the 1v4 because he used wind wall first (before any skills went off) and kited around the wall spamming q's. He didn't use it wisely but, he sure was able to kill everyone in 4 seconds. Now imagine if wind wall only lasted 2 seconds... he would have used it to block nothing.

SEKAI2/20/2015, 4:34:37 AM8 votes

This, so much this.

I have been saying the exact same thing for quite some time already , that Riot is now balancing and designing the game with a 2D fighter mentality instead of the stripped down RTS it was built and meant to be since the first dawn.

What happened Riot,

WHAT HAPPENED???

1 man armies didn't and will never belong in LoL, stop releasing overloaded kits with nearly no cd and no resource, while having either shiet load of stuff (the spell description that would make research reports blush) in a standardised kit or twice the kit size of any normal champs. This insanity has got to stop, Now.

I have been playing this game since the Karma's first release, I have been on the edge of dropping the game completely since somewhere in S3, but I really, REALLY wish I won't, I love LoL man but now it's just a little too much for even me to tolerate.

EDIT: And yes Riot, the game DOES start in champ select with counter pick taking place, it's simply not the end of it, no need to act as if strategy is a big deal and should be removed. NO!

Curling Veigar2/19/2015, 7:27:11 PM6 votes

That's when the game was the most fun.

Kitten of Evil2/19/2015, 8:07:10 PM6 votes

Apparently Riot doesn't think that map awareness and positioning are counterplay, because these things rarely factor into their balance decision-making. (With the exception of trinkets, of course... though that was honestly one of their best gameplay changes)

2pudge1cup2/19/2015, 7:43:52 PM5 votes

Eh, this is the vision that Riot seems to have wanted for a while. They wanted a "no hard counter" game play with characters slotted into roles, and this is part of the result of it.

You might not like it, but they were fairly clear that this was their end goal.

I mean it's kinda hard to push to be a strategically diverse game while charging (or forcing a lengthy grind) per character along with an additional grind for ideal runes/pages. From a marketing standpoint it's a bad look.

Government12/20/2015, 3:14:53 PM4 votes

Every strategy game is like this; if you play it poorly it doesn't seem like a strategy game. Strategy doesn't matter until you reach the highest echelons of play. It's like Starcraft 2, everyone thinks it's about strategy, and it is, but the honest truth is that if you can't master the basics, the person who wins will be the one who can simply churn out the most stuff. The strategy doesn't even matter until the highest level.

Likewise, in League, strategy doesn't matter until you master the basic concepts of the game like positioning, map awareness, and CS.

Tin Tarantino2/19/2015, 8:09:58 PM4 votes

There are strategic elements and there are mechanical elements, this is the case for most games that happen in real time, outplay potential will always be better than just who has the better items, Veigars stun is a prime example, build normally, take a full combo to the face while stunned, get merc treads, walk out of his E before W lands, it's not interesting for either player, so Riot is changing his stun, and while this may seem like just a huge nerf what people miss is that it frees up some of his power budget to tune up his kit elsewhere, like making his W larger or decreasing the time before it lands, allowing Veigar to better control space(fits his theme eh?) and be less reliant on just landing stun and hoping the enemy doesn't have enough MR to survive his burst.

Even FPS games have strategic elements, for example controlling the BR tower in Halo 2 gave your team an advantage in slayer because of the better positioning it provided, it gave the other team unfavorable spawn points like on lift or elbow where they were easier to pick off at range and also gave easy access to the sword spawn.

RTS games have strategy right in the title and some of the big focus' when training in those games is Micro and APM.

KaisadiIIa2/20/2015, 8:33:45 PM3 votes

doge skillshots

such skillshot very blink

Now being serious, I completely agree with you. Veigar has enough counterplay, for example, but RIOT's concept of counterplay now is "dodge stuff". I miss when tactical decisions were as important as mechanical skill.

MXXIV2/19/2015, 6:25:22 PM3 votes

By the way, if you take inspiration in other RTS games - In StarCraft, almost everything is overpowered (talking about StarCraft I, not II which I never played).

Ghost's lockdown disables unit for like 1 minute. Queens Spawn Broodling instakills any organic enemy unit.

I don't want LoL be that extreme, but there should be moments where I or you simply pay for doing stupid stuff (like diving turrets).

Undeadmerlin2/19/2015, 11:17:48 PM3 votes

LeeSin Liu Kang

vs

Shen Noob Saibot

vs

Akali tanya

vs

Draven Johnny Cage

vs

Yasuo Fujin

Round 1..... Fight!

Space Bum2/19/2015, 10:41:45 PM2 votes

Shit posting at its finest. Can we get board bans on the people that upvoted this garbage?

lojician2/19/2015, 9:20:59 PM2 votes

The flipside is that a lot of morons that have never played a strategy game in their life think picking kennen against a garen is some kind of brilliant strategic decision and that it doesn't matter if they don't have to exhibit any mechanical skill at all, they deserve to win. Being a strategy game is one thing, being a collection of simplistic rock paper scissors faceroll matchups that you get to abuse if you pick after your opponent is something completely different.