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So this is true reason why knockups are overpowered

DamSonWhUFndThis·2/14/2020, 2:11:32 PM·2 votes·1,055 views

Imagine champ like he has big radius on his ult, quite small cooldown with items, full AP malphite oneshots you, tanky malphite deals still pretty decent amount of damage but regardless of anything the knockup is still constant neverchanging duration CC

can throw at you thousands of knockups you have to dodge if you are like squishy and not even that his ult extends the CC and gives him more damage so like the fact that he can knockup you more often while there's no counters to knockups is unfair

champ taking almost 0 damage when he ults that can CC chain you very effectively thanks for him having a knockup

Fed cho.... just run away so he can't eat you oh he landed his Q knockup and you didn't dodge so you die because knockups are holding you there for eternity - he has many ways to catch up to you

already busted champ that needs 1 item and 1 out of thousands Q she throws to land on you and your chance to get oneshoted triples, this champ has also a knockup?/knockback whatever unfair

champ that is already busted enough to fight darius with 5 stack bleed has a knockup that is hard to land but knocks you up almost as long as morgana q so basicaly eternity on top of that he can cc you with his W and slow you another knockup in ult I forgot

heh...

one of the only knockups that are fair because the wind up time on that Q takes a long time 's knockup also sounds pretty ballanced like a skillshot you know not like = instantly dash on that location (going ap oneshots squishies also) also 's knockup is pretty much ballanced it's used for enemy to fly away or to knock them up for a short time it's ultimate afterall and no just because some of these knockups are on ults doesn't make them ballanced (lategame 40cdr ultimate hunter and boom you have ult on almost any champ for every single fight)

I won't continue those are already lot of champs that can exploit knockup to their advantage..

7 Comments

myamia2/14/2020, 6:02:31 PM2 votes

knockups are powerful because of one thing. they aren't affected by tenacity.

edit: look at that, agent corgi with the info drop and name dropping johnny 2x4.

Cind3rkick2/14/2020, 3:24:19 PM1 votes

The only thing unbalanced about knockups is that it cant be cleansed by QSS and that Ornn should just have a stun rather than knockup.

Each knockup has its drawbacks that keeps it in check.

Malphite has his entire power budget thrown into his R. He can only be considered a champion when his ult is up.

Yasuo has to hit a skillshot twice to even get his knockup. Then taking into the fact that he is a squishy melee can make it hard for him to even survive long enough for 3 Qs. It is also the only way he can use his ultimate meaning he needs to use the knockup to enable his entire kit.

Alistar is a support tank with only 1 reliable engage. If he didnt have his knockup he would be useless and outclassed by every other support.

Chogath "A fed".. A fed anything is op. His Q has a clear warning before it happens and is cho's only reliable ranged ability. Making this any weaker will make cho only viable in jungle, where he would be forced into a very strict build.

Diana has to dive into the enemy team and her damage isnt instant. Thats plenty of time for an alert team to kill her.

Ornn has a stupidly big warning symbol on his knockup, which can even be comoletely prevented by cc. Sure it should probably be a stun but even still it isnt unfair at all.

Riven also has to charge up her knockup and it is a very small radius with small range. It is easy to dodge if you can keep track of when its up.

Each knockup has its own counterpart.

Skia Asteri2/14/2020, 4:07:32 PM1 votes

{quoted}

can throw at you thousands of knockups you have to dodge if you are like squishy and not even that his ult

I would like to point out that whild his empowered Q is a knockup, his ult is a suspension.

A CC type shared by Nami Q and Velkoz E.

Agent Corgi2/14/2020, 5:49:02 PM1 votes

I wouldn't say the champions nor their abilities are the problem (for some maybe, not all of them).

Knockup/Airborne is unaffected by Tenacity. So if you have your Merc Treads along with the Unflinching/Legend (up to a maximum of 95% Tenacity): Tenacity runes, Johnny 2x4 over there playing Ornn is still going to knock you up for the full duration.

Ariel the Cruel2/14/2020, 6:49:25 PM1 votes

Tangentially relevant:

[{quoted}](name=AD Yuumi,realm=NA,application-id=ELUpwER8,discussion-id=2MKjsKEj,comment-id=0017,timestamp=2018-09-04T03:15:32.660+0000)

A good question!!!!

Here's some of the design reasons we use knockups vs. stuns.

Thematic Sometimes a knockup/knockback just feels correct thematically and it would betray player expectations to not make it so. Displacements are the easiest examples here (Lee Sin R) , but also things like Vi ult (where she literally uppercuts you into the air). In these cases using a stun (where the target didn't move) would likely feel WRONG. Imagine hitting someone with a giant water geyser and NOT seeing them move.

Guaranteed Power Knockups give us a strong design tool. They are CC with essentially no "counterplay" as they cannot be reduced or cleansed. If you NEED an effect to "just work" and screw over THAT CHAMP for X seconds NO MATTER WHAT then a knockup is for you. Malphite ult is a great example of this principal. Unstoppable Force is intended to be an incredibly powerful and fight altering ability. The knockup helps it achieve that, even when the enemy is running things like cleanse and QSS.

Satisfaction Sometimes we just want a spell to feel good. Knockups feel better than stuns because the impact is more visceral (you move the target OMG). Things that look flashier often feel better to hit.

Mobility Counters (EDIT:forgot to put this in original post) Because they stop dashes, knockups are a great way to give your champion a counter to an opponent's mobility tools (Volibear Roar).

My personal opinion is that reasons 1 and 2 are GOOD REASONS for using knockups, while reason 3 is fine but DANGEROUS. I call 3 dangerous because in the search of "good feels" we can often forget about the importance of cleanses and tenacity in our game. Doing it every once in a while is fine, but if it becomes a trend where most spells have "knockups for the feels" the whole stun/tenacity/knockup/cleanse system can start to break down. I'd be lying to say that League hasn't experienced a good deal of "knockup" creep over the years.

In regards to stun satisfaction, there are ways to have our cake and eat it too. Knockups that fade into longer stuns are one way (did you know that Nautilus R is reducible by tenacity? The knockup only lasts .5 seconds, the majority of the CC is actually a stun!). Another way is the Thresh and Nami Q approach. Both of those spells are stuns! They just "look" like knockups, but can be reduced and cleansed like normal. The cost of that approach is clarity. They work for Yasuo R but can also be Gangplank W'd? A tad confusing, but probably worth it in the long run to get the desired counterplay.