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Riot, stop adding "counterplay to counterplay to counterplay to counterplay"

Lets have shrex·7/19/2018, 3:39:31 PM·5 votes·1,780 views

This is damn crazy, towers are a zone you're supposed to feel safe and counter enemy champions, we already have shit tons of enemy champions who got tower safety / untargettability. Towers are supposed to reveal nearby stealthed units, and now you added "a special snowflake that isn't affected by it"

Look, recently people were bitching about marksmen being "squishy", so you added which all are offensive items with defensive stats, stronger than tank stats. If someone is squishy, he should buy tank items in order to feel tanky, not rewarded tank-wise by buying offensive items.

is also a burst mage with a simple combo. Ok she's a burst mage, but why the fuck can she loot sums spells from enemiy minions and "steal" enemies sums ( for a follow up) from level 3 with no downside nor cooldown ? Why does she have damage shafted randomly everywhere in her kit ? Why does her bubble stands on the ground if she missed it ?

Look, you added an AP item supposed to counter tanks stacking hp (), later you even freaking released a tank item countering an item supposed to counter tanks (). How the fuck does it make sense in your brain ?

Stop, leave counterplay a thing. Some weaknesses shouldn't be overcame with each patch, this is simply ruining the game.

10 Comments

AnAggravatedPimp7/19/2018, 3:42:51 PM3 votes

Then people complain that x has no counterplay and riot doesn't listen to the community, then Riot adds counterplay and threads like this get made and players say riot doesn't listen to the community so Riot backs off a bit but then people complain that x has no counterplay and riot doesn't listen to the community, etc., etc.

SwiftKitten887/19/2018, 3:49:15 PM2 votes

the biggest issue with her rework right now is the true stealth.. that is absurd.... even if turrets cant reveal her (which is still bs), ABILITIES that are specially designed to SHOULD.

there is nothing fair about that at all

i mean,what abilties give you true sight on them anyways?

not very many in fact only 13 total

LeeSin Q. ok so even if he lands his Q he is still worthless? Morgana R.. not only can she just user her E to instantly get out of range and back in to drop the tether, she can also now also shroud? Nidalee again a champion that gives true sight when they land thier skillshot... again designed to counter bullshit like this

there are 10 more abilities in this game that do that including Thresh Q Fizz R Rengar R Caitlyn traps AND ulti

all of which her simple ablity that GIVES her recourse, counter.

its not "JUST about the turrets" the game is BALANCED around these champion being able to follow up after they did something

Teridax687/19/2018, 11:08:55 PM1 votes

I agree with this. I think it's normal and okay to have mechanics that naturally counter each other, but when Riot goes out of their way to implement second- or even third-hand counters, whether they be on champions or itemization, that's when things get messy. This is also one of those situations where I feel player perception isn't necessarily the most helpful either: everyone wants Grievous Wounds when healing is excessive, for example, but now that pretty much anyone can easily access GW and cut the enemy's healing by almost half at all times, healing now has to be balanced around that, and is consequently too strong. This is why Mundo was buffed to regen 100% of his max health, for example.

In general, counters to counters that are too widely available tend to drive up whichever mechanic they are designed to counter, since that mechanic then has to be strong enough to survive being constantly countered. This is also why League has a problem with tanks, because there is so much anti-tank damage in the game that tanks need to be buffed in compensation. Unfortunately, those buffs have frequently been in the form of damage, rather than durability, which has harmed the class's identity. In each case, though, these counters generate an arms race, one where both side are driven to creep up in power, to the detriment of anyone who hasn't caught up yet.

In the case of champions, I feel there's been a similar problem, in that many recent champions have been designed to counter their own counters. Whereas older champions generally have some situations where they'll always suffer, many more modern champions have been loaded with enough mechanics to have a response to practically any situation. Contrast Ashe, for example, who has super-clear strengths and weaknesses, and who gets punished when she messes up, to someone like Zoe or Camille, both of whom can make plenty of mistakes and still have built-in recovery options. Personally, of the three designs, I'd say Ashe is the most successful by far, yet this isn't the design philosophy that is being followed anymore, at least not with the majority of reworks and new champions (it's also worth mentioning that Ashe's rework wasn't all that long ago).

In a League where everyone could recover from their mistakes, I think champions like Yasuo, Zoe, the new Akali, etc. would all be more acceptable, because everyone would get to counter everyone else, but that is simply not the case in League. Some champions can punish others hard, and some champions can recover pretty well, but not everyone can do both. As such, when you add champions designed to punish enemies extra-hard with flashy combos, but also give them really strong options for when they mess up, those designs feel unfair, no matter how much goes into balancing them. As with many parts of its design, League is stuck halfway in a transition between its old state and a new one, and the resulting impact on gameplay isn't great.