Lee Sin: Still defining the jungle meta, 4 seasons later.

Krepo16·12/4/2014, 6:00:51 PM·116 votes·8,222 views

I have to ask, as an avid Diamond I jungler for 5 seasons, why Lee Sin is the only jungler that is still absolutely, ridiculously broken. For all the jungle changes, he is still going to be picked in most competitive games. His mobility is out of control with even the slightest concept of the champion and he only needs to build one damage item for the entire game to out damage most other junglers. If you cannot compete with Lee Sin in the jungle, you cannot jungle. There is no other jungler that has been this persistently overpowered throughout every season. We've even seen Rioters come right out and say that if he wasn't so popular he would've been nerfed long ago, yet here we are, 4 seasons later with the same stale jungle meta because champions like this continue to dominate no matter what the jungle items are, or how difficult the camps may be.

There's a simple way to open up the jungle to other characters and that's getting rid of ridiculous characters that no one else can realistically compete against. Riot was fine doing it to Elise, they didn't bat an eye when they did it to Eve, so I think it's about time we bring the golden boy down from S-tier.

149 Comments

Yfrappefort12/4/2014, 6:10:54 PM31 votes

I've been saying this since his release : Lee Sin should have stayed as an April fool.

Helmight12/4/2014, 8:18:32 PM22 votes

The problem with Lee Sin is that his kit has no inherent weaknesses. He has free sustain, a shitton of damage, utility, mobility, tankiness, peel, etc. all built into his kit. What really needs to happen is that Lee Sin needs a rework that actually gives him exploitable weaknesses. Otherwise, he will continue to be THE defining jungler.

metaworldpeace1012/4/2014, 9:27:53 PM22 votes

Yep, Riot nerfed Lucian because he was a solid fit in any team composition. His nerfs were definitely warranted. LeeSin Also suffers from the same issue. He fits into EVERY team comp. Riot stated that they want "strategic diversity" and that champions should be picked depending on what type of game you want to play (ie Stall comp, Poke comp exc.) It's time for Riot to follow through with their plan and nerf this son of a bitch that's been terrorizing the jungle for 4 seasons as mentioned by the OP.

Xtremey12/4/2014, 6:23:39 PM20 votes

kha zix was at the beginning of season 4 and got beaten to shit with the nerf bat numerous times. Elise got the same treatment in season 3. Riot dont be so biased towards the blind monk, he's always been in competitive play.

CaptnJakSparrow12/4/2014, 8:01:19 PM18 votes

Lee and high skill shouldn't be used in the same sentence. The average bronze player can play Lee Sin well simply due to the fact he's in every single game. It wouldn't be an issue if I always got my way and I always got jungle, but . . . therein lies the problem. I do not. So, here I am . . . usually an adc, and the next thing I hear is "first blood" with Lee Sin's face and my jungler dead somewhere in his jungle. Then again. Then again. Then again. and then by level five here's a 4/0 Lee Sin tower diving me because he's already that fed. Can you guess how much I can actually do? nothing. I mean, is the game still winnable? Yeah. But only after you drag it out for a half hour sitting behind your very last set of turrets, down two drags and hope you catch them all out. No other jungler pulls that off consistently besides Lee Sin.

Learn 2 Swim12/4/2014, 11:37:17 PM16 votes

There has been close to 10 junglers nerfed in the past 6 weeks and Lee Sin will continue to go untouched.

Skarner, Warwick, Rammus get 1-2 weeks where they are viable before getting gutted and Lee Sin gets 3+ years of being #1 or #2.

FCK YOU RIOT

SmokingPuffin12/4/2014, 6:05:18 PM11 votes

why Lee Sin is the only jungler that is still absolutely, ridiculously broken.

Lee is probably still quite strong. Your timing is horrible, though. Warwick on live is as broken as any jungler ever and vastly more broken than Lee on live.

You should save this post for the next patch.

Ixaxxar12/5/2014, 2:00:28 AM11 votes

I'm sick of seeing lee sin in every single "pro" game. It is not fun to watch, this champion is stupid.

Skias12/5/2014, 4:45:24 AM10 votes

Lee is greatly protected by the masses who play him. For reasons I can't understand, people love him. Riot has stated they fear the backlash of nerfing him. He needed to lose ward jumping a long time ago. That single thing is a huge amount of power that only Kat and Lee get for free, when even flash is gated with a massive CD. We all know the value of a free escape. The thing is, the ward jump never feels like it is budgeted into their power value at balance.

If Lee and Kat lost their ward jump, huge problems would be alleviated.

Edit: as pointed out by my fellow summoners, Jax also possesses the ability to ward hop. Always feels great when he does that.

ValyrianBlade12/4/2014, 6:35:11 PM5 votes

To say they won't nerf a champion because he's popular is ridiculous. The OP champions will always be the most popular, because people want to win!

That said, they did remove his as slow last season right? And that was his best use in the late game, so they did something. They probably just need to lower his damage by a little and they'll be okay - I don't find him broken OP at least at my level of play. Maybe even just slow down his skillshots, make them harder to hit so he has more counterplay through people dodging it...

Jefftiffy12/4/2014, 6:35:39 PM4 votes

Lee Sin really isn't a problem. I don't know why everyone has to moan about an early game champ. His late game is being hit near every patch, and he struggles in the new jungle. He very vulnerable to counter jungling if he tries to farm.

People complain about Lee who relies almost purely on reaction to the other team when their is Yi who can just farm till late game and run in and 1v1-1v5 depending on the enemy teams comp. Honestly the junglers that synced with FF and now Devourer are so much more toxic than Lee is now. Why? Because Lee falls off hard and takes a lot of skill to play while most of the junglers that use infinite stacking are late game champs. Lee struggles to duel any ADC or AS heavy champ late game due to the nerfs to his tempest awhile ago.

Sammystorm12/4/2014, 9:21:10 PM3 votes

I get tired of these broad overstatement that are just not true.

Lee was only a champ for about 3 months in season 1.

In season 2 it was all about the tanky aoe junglers. Maokai, shen, and shyvana were huge in the jungle.

In season 3 we saw a lot of different strategies but with the removal of hog and philo stone and the tougher first clear we saw champs that could make huge impacts on lane early that also had high single target damage, like lee sin.

Season 4 was very similar to season 3.

The problem that forced these high damage junglers into the jungle was the progressive increase in difficult in the monsters. I know in season 3 they had a nerf on aoe damage (not sure if it got reverted) so that jungle mobs would only take a percentage of aoe damage.

The problem isn't lee sin but instead how riot decided to balance their jungle in season 3. They forced a meta change and people decided that the meta that developed in season 3 is more effective. So to get a change we would need to incentivize the tank junglers to be played. Which riot has attempted to do several times but hasn't been largely successful.

I would say it is more the jungle defining the junglers rather then lee sin defining the jungle.

Alpharite12/4/2014, 8:56:29 PM2 votes

If he's so broken, why is his winrate so low in ALL levels of play?

Steel Inquisitor12/4/2014, 8:13:21 PM2 votes

Another Lee Sin circlejerk. He's been nerfed into oblivion already.