The Punisher (Coming to a MOBA anywhere else but this one)

CrimsonReaperX·7/22/2018, 8:00:45 AM·1 votes·663 views

[zombie-brand-mindblown] Where. Is. The. Punishment.

Do you ever have that one game where you completely destroy someone? You're not just destroying them, you are taking the time to mold them into the world's whiniest lunchable. You stop them from farming, kill them when they make one mistake, even make it to where they can't go help their team without being a potential liability. Basically, you Punish them. And by the time you've finished using them as a rag to wipe that one bead of sweat from your 12/0 brow at 11 minutes, they are now an unhappy meal with no toy inside.

But Then. It Happens

  1. Was it one kill?
  2. Did they stack while you were helping your team and securing obejectives?
  3. Did they get a core item?
  4. Did their team give them minions and assist gold?
  5. Did they manage to contest a (X) dragon?

All these questions give way to another question. Does it matter?

Does it really matter what condition it was that brought them back? Did you not spend a good chunk of the laning-phase and even beyond that ensuring they wouldn't become what you dreaded they might?

But in most cases where I've found myself in this situation, there's always one explanation that rubs me the wrong way. It is when someone explains the reason why my hard-work was in vain is because of the way my opponents champion is designed. That because they scale better than me or they were allowed one win condition, that they are now a useful addition to their team all on their own.

I Am Not saying they don't deserve a chance at item 3107 I Am Not saying that coming back shouldn't be a possibility.

I Am saying that they should not come back just because of the way they are designed. "It's (X) they're supposed to do that." Never use that as justification. Never say that to anyone. Especially not if that (X) was two deaths away from totaling the kill count that results from the first batch of Infinity War watchers spoiling it for the second who are waiting in line.

Two examples would be Fiora and Nasus. Not the only examples. In fact, I'd like to know who you've experienced the situation above with.

(No champions were flamed during the making of this post. I don't need the "As a (X) player" commenting on why they think I'm an idiot or am playing against their champion wrong.)

Fiora is not at all that hard to understand after a few games against and as her. Truth be told, she doesn't fit my play-style but tends to counter my typical champ-pool to the point that I mastered 2-3 champions to counter her or figured out methods to adapt to her abilities using her "easy match-ups". However, there are some games where I obliterate a Fiora to the point where she isn't able to finish item 3074 or item 3071 without me already being two items ahead. But as her epithet suggests, once she's acquired another item or so, she is ready to duel me for my constant bullying. The problem is, I can capitalize on the mistakes she's made in the past and continues to make, but because she's gotten a power spike or two despite me still being far ahead of her, she can afford to play sloppier and not get Punished for it as hard. Basically, I dominate the early game, bully the mid game, but just because it's "that champion" late game is an uncertain thing. Will they remain an easy target or will they find it easier to get back into the game because the way they're designed allows them to feed off bits and pieces of opportunity to inevitable become a monster?

Nasus is an easier target to discuss since he's simpler to use. Let me be honest and blunt: I loathe this champion. He has drawn so many spiteful discussions on whether he's OP or weak, that I prefer to just ignore him until I'm forced to deal with him. Let me start off by saying, I'm unlucky when it comes to picking. I am either first pick or my laner is last pick and then there are those misleading games where there are three potential top laners only for you to figure out you're vs a Vayne as Mordekaiser (Tricky but not impossible). So unless I'm duo with someone, counter-picking rarely occurs. But regardless of what I've picked, Nasus is so easy to play against that the rules to fighting him are generalized.

  1. Freeze wave under turret.
  2. Pressure him if he walks up.
  3. Punish him if he bares his teeth.

Keeping in mind his potential is the key to fighting him. But despite all the hell you've put him through, you can't just ignore him while you go off to try and end the game with your team. Because even though you're ahead, you might not be able to end as quickly as you hoped. It's not a one and done situation. You might be the only one who has had an easy lane and so now you're trying to help out, which takes time. Time that the pimp cane wielding dog will use to stack infinity. A concept that is flawed in this game. By the time you've secured an inhibitor and a baron you decide to go pay your puppy a visit since you see that he is now finally taking the first top turret at 25 minutes. With item 3110 item 3057 and item 1028 item 1028, it's clear that he hs not built damage. However, the time you used to go help your team instead of pushing your lane continuously allowed him to get 300+ stacks that can now be used at an obscurely low CD and mana cost. But because he's tanky enough to survive what would usually be death sentence for other champions that are so far behind, he drops your health solely because he was allowed to stack. All that Punishing gone to waste because you couldn't end the game before he got enough stacks. In my opinion, this champion is not OP. But I definitely feel that more could be done with him instead of just relying on a stacking system, especially if some conditions of losing stacks is not going to be added in fear of gutting him.

Honestly, the changes to gold bounty don't help either. In the event that your opponent just so happens to deal the killing blow to your 3/0 mid, that's 600 gold right there. Two kill streak bounty is worth as much if not a little more as a first blood. If the idea of it is pleasing, then at least lower the bounties rewarded.

No matter what the meta is. No matter what is viable, non-viable, or just downright abusable, the same concept should be followed. Nothing deserves to come back into a game solely because of how they are designed. Let them actually be Punished for losing.

2 Comments

Khristophoros7/22/2018, 9:43:45 AM2 votes

I get what you are saying because certain champions seem to inevitably reach their power spikes given you didn't win the game in x minutes. It's frustrating for sure.

One thing you can do is identify how you actually counter this champ instead of just assuming that smashing them in the laning phase is how you do it.

Like for example against Nasus if your champ has the advantage in lane, your goal should be to minimize his farming as much as possible. Killing him isn't necessarily going to accomplish that because going all in for kills often fucks up the wave, you have to recall, it puts you at risk to get ganked, etc... If he's not completely boosted you'll have to work for the kills and in the long run you give him big waves to catch, miss big waves yourself, or get ganked sometimes.

So I think in that case, assuming you have a good matchup against him, you want to freeze when the wave is near your turret, zone him, make him always take damage for last hitting anything, and whenever he's not in lane shove to make him totally miss whatever you can. The idea is to completely focus on reducing how much he can farm in a consistent, long term manner. Never expend a shitload of resources all-inning him. The goal is to zone him out and force him to recall a lot.

That's how I think you actually counter Nasus as hard as possible. He will still be able to have relevant damage output later in the game but if you've limited his farm consistently for the entire duration of the game, and then the midgame or lategame teamfights come, he's not going to be effective enough to be a problem.

remakoro7/22/2018, 9:31:26 AM1 votes

Whats your fucking point? Can i have TLDR? Im kinda interested in what you are trying to say but post itself is extremely hideous atrocity.