Its Pre-Season, give constructive feedback not "OMG THIS STUFF IS ****** OP!"

Guy Fox Teemo·11/8/2017, 11:32:05 PM·106 votes·7,651 views

Things are out of whack and a lot of shit is OP (As with every pre-season, people don't seem to learn though).

So please give Riot CONSTRUCTIVE feedback, on whats OP, why, and maybe offer some solutions on how to fix it. Because Riots not going to listen to a bunch of whiny kids on the boards crying that everything is OP, and their only source is "I GOT ONE SHIT IN X SECONDS, RIDICULOUS!!"

Also again its PRE-SEASON, don't act like balance being out of whack is out of this world absurd. Despite it happening every year.

131 Comments

Death by Glamour11/8/2017, 11:35:21 PM42 votes

tbh they were told that black harvest was completely broken weeks ago and it still made live

[sg-janna]

Kitten of Evil11/9/2017, 5:16:16 AM12 votes

My big criticism is twofold: one, it seems like damage has gone up yet again, and two, everything is way more opaque now.

Damage has gone up because so many of these new runes give champions even more sources of damage: Aery, Arcane Comet, Predator Boots, Aftershock for tanks, etc. I have noticed that base damages have gone down a bit since old AD/AP runes are gone, but this seems to mostly affect farming (and, in my opinion, in a negative way as it's less reliable) and not interactions with champions, since so many of the new runes proc on champion damage.

That's easy enough to tone down with numbers, I guess.

The other, bigger problem is that everything is more opaque because there's so much more going on. Yes, some of it will become a bit clearer as people get used to it, but a lot of it won't. For example, runes that give you adaptive AP/AD based on your % health or whether you're in river, or give you lifesteal/AS/out of combat MS per unique takedown. Or something like the Legend line, which gives you a base of free stats plus more stats based on takedowns/CS/epic minion kills. How is the opponent supposed to keep track of your lifesteal, or your constantly fluctuating AP/AD. How can they know when to safely trade with you?

The Bad Touch11/8/2017, 11:53:29 PM10 votes

Constructive feedback.

Revert the patch. Buff Mages. Rework ardent again.

Very Hard Engage11/9/2017, 12:24:46 AM9 votes

tone down electrocute, give everyone +9 armor. lower lethality scaling (as everyone has less armor now). have scaling runes ramp sooner, from 10 minutes down to 8minutes etc.

basically, gut red tree.

nGio11/9/2017, 11:13:32 AM6 votes

Okay. Tanks are near useless right now. One class can't have the worst itemization AND the worst Runes. About halfway through the day, all of the 'tanks' in my games started just building damage, because they were getting their dicks instantly blown off anyway, so they'd might as well land a hard punch on their way out.

Yenn11/9/2017, 4:45:59 AM6 votes

[{quoted}](name=Guy Fox Teemo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BEJr2Glp,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-11-08T23:32:05.182+0000)

So please give Riot CONSTRUCTIVE feedback, on whats OP, why, and maybe offer some solutions on how to fix it. Because Riots not going to listen to a bunch of whiny kids on the boards crying that everything is OP, and their only source is "I GOT ONE SHIT IN X SECONDS, RIDICULOUS!!"

Reminder that Riot literally pays a fairly large group of people to sit there and figure this shit out for 40+ hours each week.

Why do you think we should have to do their job for them, while they're being paid to figure this shit out?

Mimr11/9/2017, 7:26:14 PM4 votes

I mostly agree, but the problem is there are several things so completely out of whack that one wonders how it's possible Riot failed to pick them up and work on them. How did Riot expect mages to lane against AD opponents when they decided not to compensate them earlygame for the removal of armor runes? Did they expect every single mage to take Resolve as a secondary tree and pick Iron Skin? Yes, they got a piddly 30 extra base health but that does not compensate for losing around 13 armor (what were the stats on armor yellows again? They were so ubiquitous that I last checked their stats years ago...) and getting extra health/ level does not help you earlygame against a Zed or Talon. Also towers are so ridiculously weak I don't know whether to laugh or cry about it.

Now, I know that projects like Runes Reforged are massive and impossible to pull off flawlessly. I work as a professional tester and have picked up a thing or two about software design through the years, so I know how difficult stuff like this is to create. However, when I see flaws of this magnitude in the stuff I have to test I always get annoyed and wonder why I have to waste my time reporting it while our client could have easily noticed and fixed it himself. Flaws in the new Runes system like I described above are of the same order of magnitude as creating a website and then forgetting to add a Home button really.

PaffWasTaken11/9/2017, 5:34:31 AM4 votes

This season was horrible Even the worlds were unbalanced We went head on into a patch with deadly changes while needing some huge fixes already

What do you expect people to do? Send some roses to Riot's headquarters with a letter written in curcive explaining that they messed up several times in a row this year?

Teridax6811/9/2017, 2:29:31 PM3 votes

Giving feedback on the current balance of the game is constructive criticism, though, as pointing out the excessively snowbally nature of matches, overly high damage, etc. does give Riot something to work with. Beyond that, though, many players did point out issues with the new runes, including Dark Harvest, but no balance work was done on the PBE in response to this feedback.

With that said, I agree that we should retract our claws somewhat on this, and have a bit more patience, because this preseason is intended to be very experimental (like any preseason, really), and so balance issues are bound to appear. If the single biggest problem with a complete overhaul to out-of-game customization is that damage is too high, I'd say Riot actually did quite a good job on making sure everything else is healthy, or at least not obviously problematic (from what we're experiencing now, anyway). Damage is likely to be reduced in due time via targeted nerfs to some runes, and I think it'll be at that point, once we've also figured out which builds are optimal on champions, that the community is likely to start giving more pointed feedback.

Sire Hippington11/9/2017, 4:18:03 PM3 votes

Well, most posts i see complain about damage overall beeing to high and/or snowballing beeing even worse that befor, which is not bitching about something specific beeing OP but about the new system overall offering to much damage compared to tankiness and creating a to snowbally enviorment, which is a legit complain.

And while it's natural and no a big deal if single champs/runes and interatctions are OP, it's still important to call them out and fix them as they make it hard to asses the overall impoact of other changes. If 1 or two masteries are broken and cause the damage influx that people complain about, then it's important to bring those masteries in line so one can see wether it's really just those out of line masteries or a generall issue.

Lunar Nasus11/9/2017, 4:45:57 PM3 votes

TL;DR: Each level in the runes system needs more options with greater risk/reward structure so you can customize your character to the way you want to play it, instead of just stacking damage and saying to hell with it because there's barely any choices to resist the obnoxious output of damage.

In addition to the Resolve tree granting you health, I feel as though if it's your primary role, it should give you a small boost into armor and magic resist, perhaps +5/+5, furthering the concept of "Live forever, AND durability".

If you want constructive criticism Riot here it is:

You gutted runes (great!) and attempted to scale everyone's armor back up. The problem lies in the %'s and what's offered. You gave AD dealers AD to get back up to their "regular" state after gutting runes. Then, most AD dealers take trees which give them either more power, effects, or flat out AD/AP (adaptive) on TOP of the buffs to "restore them" to a regular state.

On the flip side, there's little to no options to REDUCE or mitigate damage, and no, +5 armor/MR is not the "Go to" finger pointer. Do you realize, % wise, how much damage +5 armor even would even reduce? Stack that with +5% armor at the beginning of the game for being FORCED to pop a potion or have some sort of innate sustain to get the effect. I could mitigate damage more with the runes offered in the previous system that I ever could here.

In fact, take any tank champ into the game and play it out. In last season we had an option for +5% armor/MR in Masteries RIGHT FROM THE START OF THE GAME, and in addition we could choose to stack more armor, scale our health, get some CDR, it felt like I had OPTIONS.

One of the most viable aspects of this system that I feel is overlooked is the fact that I don't feel like I'm making choices. If you're NOT a ADC/Assassin, I feel like you're forced down certain paths simply because even with the megar bonuses offered, you are forced to take those paths because without them, you're not viable at ALL.

AP, Junglers, and non-damage supports are left in the void as well as many other champions.

Especially as a tank, I don't feel like I'm making decisions or have that many options available to me.

For example, a better option in the resolve tree would have been something like this:

Gain 15 armor, but deal 10% less damage for 10 minutes.

OR

Gain 15 Magic resist, but deal 10% less damage for 10 minutes.

OR

After 10 minutes gain 8 armor AND magic resist + 5% armor and magic resist.

OR

Gain 20 armor AND magic resist, but deal 15% less damage to champions and monsters for the first 15 minutes of the game.

OR

After 5 minutes, for each minute passed, gain 1 armor and 1 magic resist.

This gives me more options and actually makes me FEEL like I'm making a choice with clear consequences or benefits so I could choose to walk in more tanky or wait and get clear benefits and losses for each choice, depending on how long I think the game is going to go.

It also makes it more viable to go into certain match-ups or survive longer. These are arbitrary examples, but you can see my point. The whole system is missing things like this. Instead there's 3 options at each level, multiple of which are not even VIABLE for the "class" or champ you're playing, so you basically go into 1 rune selection, maybe 2, just because you ARE the class you are, and the runes only work for you.

In conclusion, there needs to be more choices, more keystones so there's more options for a lot of different classes. Right now I feel like there's the typical 1-2 paths that can be played for most champs, if at all.

With more keystones and choices, you'd encompass a large variety of champions and offer a lot of mix-match benefits that could expand the game more and offer a metric ton of different ways to play champions because you have more options available to you.

Fedoran11/8/2017, 11:38:58 PM3 votes

This.

StoryDuck11/9/2017, 5:32:59 AM1 votes

Okay,

Too much easily accessible tenacity atm. Riot needs to add ways to CC longer or remove a good chunk of the Tenacity recently added.