Why Zilean's W Should be a Passive Ability/Changed

exigentomic·1/26/2016, 5:03:59 AM·14 votes·1,726 views
Zilean

There's no decision-making to using W and everything it does could be automated without any gameplay loss. This is a sign of a design in need of some love and it's a stark contrast to champions like Karma. In Karma's case, the modifier key is R and you can change your abilities significantly when using it in the right context. Jayce is another example of this. For Zilean, it's a tedious and pointless ability which seems to exist only because there's a W key. It might seem odd to say this since you press W to use an ability twice and you need to make the right choice. However, upon closer inspection, this is a false sense of agency and doesn't enrich gameplay. The real choice is whether you want to use E or Q twice, not whether to press W.

Here is W's description from the Wiki:

Rewind COST: 35 MANA COOLDOWN: 14 / 12 / 10 / 8 / 6 ACTIVE: Zilean reduces Time Bomb and Time Warp's cooldowns by 10 seconds.

W works only on Q and E so you could have the same effect by integrating W into each of these abilities or having W's effects be part of Zilean's passive. This is the conceptual strange and the _numbers would of course need tweaking _ but an idea for Zilean's passive to maintain his exact gameplay while opening new avenues for W could be:

When Q or E are reactivated, their cooldowns are reduced by 10 seconds but there is an additional 35 mana cost for the first ability cast. This has an internal cooldown of 14 / 12 / 10 / 8 / 6 at levels a, b, c, d, e.

That's all! You now have everything that W does without needing to waste an ability on a non-interactive feature. All you have to do is figure out a more interesting W and balance the new passive around it. This is the crux of the design and everything flows smoothly and naturally from it.

However, this would make Zilean a strategically more complex champion and perhaps Riot doesn't want that. I have an alternative that also reduces finger strain but is less ambitious and requires no extra effort on the part of current Zilean players. W can become a passive ability which is leveled up just as it is right now. Instead of the description above applying to Zilean's passive, it is simply moved to W. This is similar to how Vayne's W is designed and actually doesn't change any of Zilean's gameplay or tuning. It would merely be a QoL change.

What do you think a new Zilean W could be and which design would you prefer?

21 Comments

what you deserve1/26/2016, 5:26:56 AM4 votes

I've played Zilean a total of like three times because of this. Maybe there's something cool about pulling off a well-timed W but I don't feel it. Making it passive and maybe just separating his E into an allied buff and an enemy debuff would probably be more fun.

exigentomic1/26/2016, 5:20:30 AM4 votes

Don't assume identical numbers. This is a thought experiment, not patch notes. Balance comes later and the motivation for the idea isn't due to him being in a weak state. In terms of balance, I think he's fine too but that's not what this is about. I'm focused on cohesiveness and silky smooth gameplay which makes you feel like the champion is almost an extension of yourself.

Anyway, I gave an alternative design which has the exact same balance/gameplay/numbers as Live but provides a nice QoL buff to make Zilean more accessible and enjoyable. While not the hardest champion in the game, he sports a sub 2% play-rate and I think part of that is the unnecessary awkwardness of his W. A champion as cool as Zilean deserves more play.

Orangechrisy1/26/2016, 6:55:22 AM3 votes

Could do it like kassadins ult, you can recast q or e for a bit more mana, or you can wait out their actual cool down for the mana to reset to what it usually is.

Renascent1/26/2016, 6:36:06 AM3 votes

I don't know how many Zilean players know this, if at all, but there are actually advanced tactics involving W.

Depending on your max cdr, W will be at 3.6s or 3.3s cd. Bombs last 3s before detonating. Keep these in mind, as bomb duration and W cd is crucial.

These two tactics are situational, since they need ~40% cdr and "time", but they are powerful.

Tactic #1: Use your standard EQW on a target. However, instead of throwing out your second bomb right away, hold on until the duration of the bomb has almost run out. At this point, your W will have 0.3-1s left to go off cd. The stun, however, lasts 1.5s. Use Q for the stun, then WQ when the stun has almost worn off. With this tactic, you can extend your AoE stun duration to a 2-3s AoE stun. Do keep in mind that most people won't allow you to pull this trick off, but you'll be well rewarded for this Triple Bomb maneuver.

Tactic #2: Similar concept as #1, except instead of trying to extend stun duration, this tactic extends BOMB DURATION. Like the above method, EQW your target, wait for bomb duration to almost run out, then Q. WEQ whenever off cd. Essentially, your chosen victim will only have ~2s to try anything before getting stunned again, instead of the usual 3.3-3.6s.This method is intended to give you powerful and constant disruptions that can be great for chasing, disengaging, or just being a pain in teamfights by giving a target a bomb that'll last 10-15s.

All that said, I really don't think a new W is necessary right now. Give these two little tricks a try, you might just love it!

Abyssphere1/26/2016, 11:54:47 PM2 votes

I think the problem with your concept is that you can currently go, say, ERQWQ and that's a thing. In a world with this passive and a changed W, that doesn't work anymore. You activate E and have no choice but to repeat it, so it's EERQ... nothing.

His W isn't perfect in terms of being exciting but I think this passive would lose him quite a bit of flexibility and that seems like a bigger problem to me than his W seeming bland.

W as a passive is an idea that COULD work, but you need to think of a way that will allow him to be flexible in terms of which ability he's repeating. He should be able to activate an ability without it being the one he has to repeat.

PrometheS1/26/2016, 5:45:59 AM2 votes

Get on that Zilean love train! [slayer-jinx-catface] summoner 31

Choo Choo!

PrinceBedazzled1/26/2016, 9:16:50 AM2 votes

Nah. His w is useful in tactics when you get more used to him. What i want for zilean, is an attack speed buff/nerf for friend/foe on his e :) The movement buff would have to be nerfed of course, but I feel it would make him much more viable.

Celeste Benal1/26/2016, 9:53:34 PM2 votes

There is plenty of decision making with W.

Troiann1/26/2016, 5:12:59 AM2 votes

I feel like making his W a passive would be too powerful.

It's essentially 100% CDR on your E and Q every 6 seconds (with CDR).

I feel like he's fine as he is. Besides, what kind of spell would you tack on to his W? More utility? More damage? I feel like either would break him.

SpecterVonBaren1/26/2016, 5:06:44 PM1 votes

Make it so it has a higher CD but can also be used on allies.

Ariel the Cruel1/26/2016, 5:57:17 AM1 votes

Would you add this to his current passive, or replace? Right now, Zilean has a lot of power invested in his passive, double bomb stun, and ult. Simply adding it to his ult would have to see power shifted away from the rest of his kit. Replacing his current passive is also unlikely to happen because the fast leveling is part of his identity.

ofart1/26/2016, 5:49:32 AM1 votes

What's the point of having so many champions in league if so few are actually played most matches? I like these ideas and they can implement the second one very easily.

Subject 51/26/2016, 10:56:48 PM1 votes

This would pretty much make Zilean unplayable for me. Having the ability to time his W is important for his gameplay and I literally build no damage on him to begin with.

Zilean is really strong but everybody just plays him like he is an AP mid laner. One reason he isn't played often is because he has probably the shittiest early game as a support ever. I literally have to tell my adc to watch out until 6 and be even more careful until level 13-14 which is when I basically am able to peel off 2 or 3 tanks at once.

Level E first, then W and just zone the enemy tanks out. Pick him only when a tank has limited gap closers or a mid laner also has limited gap closers. But then again, why Pick Zilean if the support is suppose to make sure your adc doesn't die in the early game when his early game is ass?