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I'm starting to think the balance team doesnt understand how the jungle works

Zawaka·2/23/2020, 9:54:42 AM·1 votes·1,891 views

First off let me say i love this game. Recently there was some posts about how players don't like to jungle especially at low elo.

It was said that the jungle is unforgiving to learn. That is true especially with the recent changes.

I feel this is mostly because right now every decision you make feels punishing.

First off jungle exp is really low for the time spent. The jungle camps had their re-spawn time lowered but not their damage or life pools. One of the things better junglers do right now is gank and then help push the wave or leech exp from bushes so they can keep up(yes even after the xp buffs), the problem with this is in lower elo people spam ping to get out of their lane(even though they expect you to be there all the time lol). This is NOT intuitive, and neither are the new(upcoming) jungle changes. Players want you to gank, so with the new changes if you gank you will lose xp, if you dont gank people with spam ping you ask for reports, flame and possibly afk.

Changes like this just make the jungle MORE confusing.

Players need to be REWARDED for making plays and helping their team, REWARDED for invading.

One of the issues is the respawn times of the camps are too low. The gold/xp you get for each camp is low. If you need to be on one side of the map to counter gank or set up ganks you cant time it with your camps, on the other side, because THEY ARE ALWAYS UP and if you stop power farming for even a second you fall really far behind. The respawn timers/xp per camp make it really hard to effectively perform your role.

One of the things I liked about the old jungle was being able to predict ganks and wait for them to come. Now the action economy doesnt allow anything less than power farming and going for ganks that will have a 100% chance of a kill. The time you spent ganking is too much xp and gold lost if you dont kill the opposing laner, even if you get summoners. Your laner looses nothing but you do, because your camps are probably up because only like 2 junglers can clear fast enough to clear then gank.

Another reason a lot of players hate the role is that once you start getting later into the game(like 20-30 min in) you stop getting gold as the jungler. Its really lame to have your mid/adc take wolves and raptors and then your left with only gromp and krugs and more often then not you can only take one of them because some objective is up and crossing the map for 100 gold is crazy. You just feel like you fall further and further behind and its your own team doing it to you.

This makes it feel like there is a timer on the game and if you dont get massively ahead or your laners get ahead you cant carry. Most junglers CAN ONLY CARRY IF THEY WIN HARD EARLY because the later the game goes the poorer and father behind in XP you get. Ive had games where after 10 mins of playing I got only 10 cs because of fights/vision control and my own team. This is INCREDIBLY dissatisfying.

Points

Increase jungle camp respawn times and increase rewards for doing camps to allow junglers to perform their roles.

Increase jungler xp/gold gain later in the game to offset for laners taking your camps(probably need to be attached to the smite spell/jungle items)

Increase gold/xp for invading increase the reward for the risk.

3 Comments

Akando2/23/2020, 12:43:43 PM3 votes

All of these points are straight facts.

Thefrostyviking2/23/2020, 2:48:47 PM2 votes

OP you argue well for the sake of the new junglers but you overlook the rather massive issue of what happens to the experienced junglers who are thriving even now when you do this.

Back in january Riot conducted a survey among pro´s, the contest was two questions being "which role do you think has the most impact" and "which has the least?"

For the first question thus were the votes :

40% jungle 42% for the midlane 11% for supports and the rest for marksmen and was it like 1 or 2% for toplane?

For the second :

60% toplane. 30% bot ADC.

............

As we see here we have a massive issue in terms of role health, jungle and midlane are grossly overpowered even now and toplane either needs a massive amount of help or is so terrible in the first place because jungle and midlane are so overbearing.

ADC? The role is kinda designed to only come online later on so it makes sense that their impact is bad in games where neither side snowballs hence the pro´s think its lackluster, but i digress for jungle absolutely cannot be buffed to any real significance and as far as i know Riot has no real plans for that either....rather they just gave a bunch of random laners help in stealing camps?...

Well as i see it midlane needs nerfs and jungle need more nerfs, its unhealthy as hell when two roles hog so much of the impact to themselves, all roles should have fairly even impact except the marksmen who should be lower in a fast paced meta like this.

Jungle can be a bit ahead of the rest but something is terribly wrong when two roles hog 80% of the game to themselves and so OP your suggestions will only serve to make the already too strong junglers even stronger which in turn will only serve to ruin the game more than you help it by making jungle easier.

Help 1 role at the expense of the other 4 and you´ve gotten a net loss, simple.

Ambitious Minnow2/23/2020, 3:27:30 PM2 votes

"which role do you think has the most impact"

This statement, right here, is the problem with the attitude towards jungle. Jungle is EXACTLY the kind of role that Riot and the "hardcore" gamers claim they want: A high difficulty/high skill cap role. The nature of the role is to roam across map, OF COURSE the POTENTIAL game impact is high, but the keyword is "impact." Playing a bad game in jungle impacts the team as negatively as playing a good game does positively. It's not Autowin to play jungle, it's not "roll face on keyboard and win," it's not easy.

Being the better jungle is not also a guaranteed win. Anyone that has played jungle can tell you, anyone: Teammates that respond to the junglers' pings in a timely fashion and engage when jungler pings to go make games 10x easier! The games where I have a mid who actually moves to river and jungle pings, soooooooo easy! Those games, I look like a Jungle Genius, but it's really just having a mid with map and engage awareness making the big difference. Each of these games, enemy teammates cry "jungle diff," but I know: it was mid difference.

You guys want a high skill cap game? Stop fighting the existence of a high skill cap role and nerfing it into the ground for players who can't ward, look at minimap, or figure out how early game roaming works.

Lol yikes.