Nasus, how do you handle the first 15? (SoloQ)

FortMonty·5/30/2015, 1:01:15 AM·1 votes·696 views

So I've been wondering, how do you stop the tumbling stone that is Nasus in SoloQ?

Let me first clarify that I am not a high level player by any means and to be honest, this post is primarily going to be for me to find a solution on how to beat Nasus after compiling all of the information I have about him as well as the impression he has on me in the game. I'm also going to go over his kit and the issues I face when dealing with it from early to late game.

Here's his kit.

(Passive) Soul Eater: This Gives Nasus a natural 10%/15%/20% Lifesteal at levels 1/7/13

(Q) Siphoning Strike: Cooldown: 8 / 7 / 6 / 5 / 4 Cost: 20 Mana Physical Damage: 30 / 50 / 70 / 90 / 110 (+ 100% AD) (+3 [+6] per enemy killed by Siphoning Strike)

Active: Nasus' next attack within 10 seconds will deal additional damage. Siphoning Strike permanently gains 3 stacked damage whenever it kills an enemy. This bonus is doubled to 6 stacked damage if the enemy killed is a champion, big monster or big minion.

(W) Wither: Range: 600 Cooldown: 15 / 14 / 13 / 12 / 11 Cost: 80 mana Slow over 5 seconds from 35% to: 47% / 59% / 71% / 83% / 95% Max attack speed slow: 23.5 / 29.5 / 35.5 / 41.5 / 47.5%

Active: Nasus ages his target, slowing their movement speed by 35% with an additional slowing effect increasing over the duration of the spell. The target's attack speed is also slowed by half the amount, initially slowed by 17.5% and increasing over the duration. If the duration of Wither is reduced, the added slowing effect is applied faster.

(E) Spirit Fire: Range: 650 Cooldown: 12 Cost: 70 / 85 / 100 / 115 / 130 mana Initial Magic Damage: 55 / 95 / 135 / 175 / 215 (+ 60% AP) Magic Damage Per Second: 11 / 19 / 27 / 35 / 43 (+ 12% AP) Total Magic Damage: 110 / 190 / 270 / 350 / 430 (+ 120% AP) Armor Reduction: 20 / 25 / 30 / 35 / 40 Diameter of AoE: 800

Active: Nasus unleashes a spirit flame at a location for 5 seconds. Enemies caught in the area are dealt a burst of magic damage. Additionally, enemies in the area are dealt magic damage each second and have their armor reduced while on there and for 1 extra second.

(R) Fury of the Sands Cooldown: 120 Cost: 150 mana Health Gained: 300 / 450 / 600 Max Health to Magic Damage Ratio Per Second: 3% / 4% / 5% (+ 1% per 100 AP) Total Max Health to Magic Damage Ratio: 45% / 60% / 75% (+ 15% per 100 AP) Total Magic Damage Possible (to a single enemy): 3600 Total Bonus Attack Damage Possible (from a single enemy): 229.5 Diameter of AoE: 350

Active: Nasus becomes empowered in the sandstorm for 15 seconds, gaining bonus health, and 50 bonus attack range.

This is Nasus' kit (This was taken from the "Unkillable Nasus" guide by Natekiller on Mobafire)

So let's start with my issues on his abilities and how they coincide with one another to make Nasus the problem he is to me.

First off is his passive.

Nasus, as I know him, is supposed to be weak early game, strong late game. However, Nasus starts off with more than a Vampire scepter worth of life steal in order to sustain in lane, which only gets stronger and eventually becomes a Bloodthirster's worth of Lifesteal at level 13. This hardly constitutes as weak for the early game. This passive alone makes it hard to push Nasus out of lane let alone slow down his stacks, which brings me to the next issue, his Q.

Siphoning Strike is pretty much the bread and butter for Nasus and everything I feel that is wrong with his design. This ability allows Nasus to build full tank while still dishing out more damage than any other champion in the game. It also allows him to be one of the only champions in the game to get continually stronger past 6 items + pots. In other words, there's no limit to how strong Nasus will get in the game if time permits. Let's do some Math!

3 creep waves = 19 CS in total 9 Caster minions, 9 melee minions, 1 Siege minions.

in the early game, these give 15/20/41 gold respectively. (I don't know the math on the amount of gold the creeps are worth as the game goes on)

Assuming 2 players are csing perfectly on the first 3 waves, each will return to shop with roughly 400 gold each, give or take. Now assume the Nasus player stacked 10 of those cs, he now has 30 stacks, which is +30 damage on his Q. The other player, Jax for the sake of argument, returns and he buys a longsword and 1 red pot. The Nasus on the other hand, returns and buys a cloth armor, and 3 red pots.

Let's see who wins in this trade.

Nasus: +15 armor, 3 pots, +30 Q Damage.

Jax: +10 AD, 1 pot.

Even CS, Jax clearly loses out, he's -5 AD and -2 health pots, coupled with his lack of sustain in comparison to Nasus already having a vampire scepter worth of lifesteal. He also loses out on damage, though Nasus IS limited to only Q damage, but it simply hits 3x harder than Jax at this point.

Let's try this again.

Each person has 120 CS.

Assuming the same gold ratios, this would put them at 4462 gold each roughly, from just creeps.

Nasus would have Frozen heart, Ninja tabi's, and a kindlegem, in items, pretty fair amount of tankiness. Assuming nasus hit 80 of these creeps with Q, he now has 240 stacks.

Jax, would have Blade of the ruined King, ninja tabi, and a long sword.

Let's see what each champ has in stats based off just the items + creep.

Nasus: +124 armour, +400 mana, +30% CDR, +200 HP, +240 Q Damage. Passive's: Reduce AA damage by 10%, reduce AS of nearby enemies by 15%.

Jax: +35 AD, +40% AS, +10% lifesteal, +25 Armor Passives: Reduce AA damage by 10%, AA's deal 8% of current health as bonus physical damage against targets on hit maximum 60 vs monsters. Actives: Deal 10% of targets maximum heath as damage, minimum 100 and heals for the same amount and also steals 25% of the targets move speed. 90 CD.

Again, Nasus is clearly winning this trade with just creep score alone. The armour negates the damage Jax obtained, the frozen heart negates almost half the attack speed Jax obtained, the lifesteal jax obtained, nasus had from the start, and meanwhile Nasus' Q damage went from being 3 times as much, to more than 6 times as much. This doesn't factor in the lifesteal.

So I've put down some numbers, I think this is enough material to at least get a discussion going, tell me what you think, This applies to any champion mind you, you can insert any champ into this and it works the same as long as Nasus is one of them. Feel free to compare the stats of different itemization as well.

Most importantly, tell me how YOU would deal with Nasus as a Solo laner, try to work off the assumption that you won't recieve jungle support, this is solo Q remember. Also feel free to point any mistakes I've made, this thread is my attempt at overcoming my issues with Nasus.

7 Comments

EndlessSorcerer5/30/2015, 1:22:14 AM2 votes

I did this post for other threads here and here and I'm too lazy to retype it.

First, the general tips:

  • Try to avoid shoving Nasus under his turret. That makes him very hard to poke and/or kill as most melee champions, leaves you overextended (and wither makes it very easy for his jungler to gank), and limits your jungler's options.

  • Nasus will typically stack resistances. Nasus built a lot of armor against you, so switching lanes with your Kassadin would have been a good idea. Kassadin is really good at poking out melee champions due to his mana sustain, the burst damage on W, and the poke on Q. Hecarim would have worked very well mid-lane, since you could easily roam bottom lane to help them snowball.

  • Nasus deals primarily physical damage and he doesn't usually itemize for armor penetration. If you believe you will have to split-push against him for a significant portion of the game, you want to purchase some armor. item 3047 and item 3075 are especially useful when dueling him since they will reduce and reflect damage from his Q respectively.

Shoving to tower is the absolute last thing you want to do against Nasus. It lets him safely free-farm and sustain, limits your trading opportunities, prevents your jungler from ganking him (in most cases), and leaves you vulnerable to ganks (and Wither is great for chasing people down a lane). Diving Nasus can be risky as well since:

  • Wither slows you and lets him escape
  • Spirit Fire reduces your armor, amplifying the damage dealt by the tower
  • He can get a large burst of health from his lifesteal and his ultimate

Now for your questions.

How do I deny farm?

In my experience, I find that you have to freeze the minion wave and zone Nasus from farm. If at all possible, try and get the minion wave pushing towards your tower, freeze it, and call your jungler up to gank Nasus while he is overextended.

A good Nasus player may know how to handle this situation and break the freeze, but if you can get an advantage against him you can often bully him early. Just make sure he spends as little time under his tower as possible, since they is where he can freely farm and sustain.

Do I roam or stay top?

This greatly depends on the situation. Many counterpicks against Nasus will want to stay in lane with him and deny/bully him for every CS he tries to get. This works quite well when you can do so for an extended period of time, but this isn't always possible (especially when your team is losing). If your champion isn't good for handling Nasus or your team is having issues, you may have to roam to try and snowball other lanes. This can help you end the game early, snowball your team to victory, or get you allies fed enough to help against Nasus. This can be really risky though, since it allows Nasus to freefarm and splitpush.

What champions do I pick into Nasus?

Generally, I find you want some mixture of the following quantities in a champion laning against Nasus:

  • Durability (to survive retaliation and ganks)
  • Sustain (to stay health and outsustain him)
  • Spammable abilities (to punish Nasus whenever he tries to CS)
  • They have some method of sticking to Nasus or don't rely on attack speed (since Wither can cripple many opponents)
  • Anti-tank abilities (armor reduction, percent health, etc)

In addition, it helps if your champion has a strong mid or late game so that they don't fall off in comparison to Nasus. From playing as and against them, I find that the following champions can (or could) do relatively well in lane:

Akali Darius DrMundo Gnar Hecarim Kennen Mordekaiser Olaf Rumble Shyvana Swain Trundle XinZhao Yorick Vladimir

However, you don't always have to counter Nasus solely in lane. There are many champions in other roles who work very well against him.

**Mid laners: **Malzahar Cassiopeia Azir Heimerdinger Karthus Orianna Viktor Ziggs Kayle Velkoz These champions typically offer high sustained damage and methods of kiting Nasus when he tries to approach their team.

ADCs: Ashe Corki Draven Jinx Sivir Varus Vayne KogMaw Kalista These ADCs primarily have CC (knockbacks, slows, snares) for kiting Nasus and deal either mixed damage or highly amplified physical damage. Several of them have percent health damage or anti-tank abilities to help kill tanks like Nasus quickly.

Due to the crippling effects of Wither, your ADC should typically have either item 3140 or summoner 1. This can let them remove Wither immediately and kill Nasus before he can reapply it.

Junglers: MasterYi Nunu Gragas Sejuani Elise LeeSin JarvanIV Nautilus RekSai Junglers can be tricky since you typically want someone who is strong and capable of kiting him late game, but you also want someone with strong early pressure to gank Nasus and set him behind.

Nunu can set the enemy jungler behind, relieving pressure from the top lane so they can keep bullying Nasus. During teamfights, he can buff your ADC to increase their damage, chain-slow Nasus to prevent him from reaching anybody, and is too tanky for Nasus to kill.

Master Yi is a special case since he isn't that great against Nasus in teamfights but he can absolutely murder him when they splitpush against one another. Master Yi can deal a lot of mixed damage (Devourer, Blade of the Ruined King, Wuju Style), build somewhat tanky against Nasus (Ninja Tabi, Thornmail), can use Meditate to reduce Q damage, and ignores Wither. He deals far too much damage for Nasus to heal through and deals it too quickly for Nasus to kill him.

Supports: Pretty much the entire support pool can help counter Nasus due to the CC they provide and how good they are at kiting/peeling immobile squishy champions from their carries.

What summoners do I take?

You typically want to take Flash and Teleport. While Ignite gives you some extra kill pressure, you may still lose your level advantage if you have to walk back to lane. In addition, if you don't have teleport than Nasus can freely splitpush and still join fights so you will either lose towers 1v0 or lose teamfights 4v5.

What do I build?

That greatly depends on the champion you are playing. However, I would recommend building your percent-penetration items relatively early in the lane since Nasus will be stacking resistances against you. Afterwards, you may want to get some armor (such as Ninja Tabi, Chain Vest, Seeker's Armguard, or Warden's Mail) or continue building damage.

If you want an example, I would typically build Ionian Boots, Hextech Revolver, and Void Staff as Vladimir when laning against Nasus (or most tanks) so that I could quickly poke him out of lane and prevent him from sustaining through my damage. As Darius, I would recommend rushing Black Cleaver into Randuin's Omen to render his armor ineffective and to become durable enough to ignore his damage long enough to kill him.


DON'T LET A NASUS FARM UNDER HIS TURRET.

I have to agree with you there; whenever I play Nasus I always make my lane opponent shove me under tower.

However, you have to account for the fact that good Nasus players know how to make the lane push to them. Typically, I try to bait out an autoattack or AoE ability early in the lane to make it shove towards me. Barring that, I enjoy playing Swain so I've gotten pretty good at waiting until the minion is near dead before hitting it. In the early levels, waiting for the minion to take a couple more hits from your minions before killing it can be enough to make the wave shove to you.

Heck, if you manage the minions properly (kinda tricky, but doable) it's possible to make the enemy minions focus down on of yours, which can make the wave shove towards you 1v0. This can be useful to prevent pushing when the enemy top laner decides to kill a jungle camp at level 1 and to deny them CS/exp.

Don't tower dive him.

Another good point. While a well executed tower dive can set Nasus far behind, they typically don't occur in solo-queue. Between his ultimate and lifesteal (burst of health), Wither (kite you around tower, make you take extra shots trying to leave), and Spirit Fire (reduces your armor, increasing tower damage) Nasus can easily turn a tower-dive into a 1:1 trade.

Going duo top against Nasus is an especially poor choice

Depends on the duo top. I have had to endure, and have subject other Nasus players to, laneswaps so they have to 1v2 the enemy ADC and support. This is a horrible matchup for Nasus, especially if the enemy ADC scales well and can kill tanks (i.e. Vayne, Kog'maw) and the enemy support excels at poking and peeling (i.e.Thresh, Zyra). You will lose your tower early, have very little farm, and die horribly if you misposition.

When using this strategy, you typically want your top laner to pick someone who can hold their own and farm in a 1v2. Champions with strong waveclear, sustain, ranged farming tools, and/or have strong utility without items. Some examples may include: Urgot Jayce Heimerdinger Kennen LuluYorick Maokai

EndlessSorcerer5/30/2015, 1:27:53 AM1 votes

My other post was very long and I this response would probably be missed if I placed it there. Jax really isn't a good champion to take against Nasus due to how reliant he is on attack speed for damage (Frozen Heart, Wither), his lack of early sustain, his weak early game, and his lack of ranged harass. It's not as bad as taking Irelia against Nasus, but there isn't really much you can do to stop Nasus from stacking under his tower early game. By the point you can really threaten him, Nasus has already finished a major item and has enough stacks to fight back.

NemeBro5/30/2015, 1:05:55 AM1 votes

Don't try to counter Nasus with Jax, lol.

Auto attack reliant champs that aren't Mister Yi tend to get shit on by him.

Darius rips Nasus' pimp cane in half and shoves it up his ass. If the Darius player is good Nasus' stacks will be awful, and he will have likely died several times in lane.

Bully the shit out of Nasus early game. Many champions can do this. The real trouble starts when you have the decision of whether or not you should leave lane to let Nasus free farm (and possibly take your tower) to snowball other lanes if they aren't doing well.

Reaper Soraka5/30/2015, 1:37:39 AM1 votes

Well, I don't really know how to deal with a Nasus player so well, but I can tell you what I hate seeing from my opponent, as a Nasus player.

The absolute worst is when I play against a champion that can harass me directly without pushing my minion wave. If he is able to push me back while keeping the minion wave forward, I simply cannot cs until the wave pushes closer to my tower. Kennen, Teemo, Gangplank, Ryze(I'm not sure about new Ryze, before rework he was a bully.) These four champions were able to single me out from behind my minion wave, forcing me to back more often. Some times I simply left my lane to cs the small jungle creeps instead.

Another annoying thing is when they can simply push my lane under my tower, and tower dive me with their jungle assist. While it takes some practice to get your wards down and keep an eye out for Susan's jungle ganks: Shyvana, Sion, Garen, Darius, Riven, and Aatrox (Rare, but he is a somewhat strong lane opponent.) Most Rivens I see in Silver league...well.. they just don't know what to do with the power they possess. Often times they push me under my tower, and I farm happily ever after. I almost wouldn't recommend Riven unless you have a reliable jungle or know her abilities well. The others have high survival stats for tower diving, making a jungle gank a walk in the park. Practice taking tower shots, so you have an idea of when you need to back out. Trading 1:1 makes Nasus feel like he won almost every time.

Finally. His passive is a form of sustain, on top of his Q sustain, on top of his desire to build as tanky as possible, and likely countering your damage type in masteries before the game even left champion select. Well... His early game sustain is in fact somewhat weak. Often times I will see my opponent take the healing/mana flask to begin, and just harass me out of lane. While I can trade my E for which ever ability he uses, my E pushes my creeps out, and costs ridiculous amounts of mana. Nasus has a very low mana regeneration, which often times leaves him unable to have enough mana ready to Q minions consecutively when the lane turns back toward his tower.

Oh, I almost forgot. When my opponent pushes my lane, and leaves to gank mid/bot or help secure dragon. Should I stay or should I go? Early in the game I have few to no defensive items, so teleporting down to try stopping a dragon may just end with me giving up a kill. I'm also short on stacks, so my damage is already lacking to come assist in a team fight. Most times I feel more comfortable staying in my lane and gaining stacks. I will usually stay and take the gamble. If you waste your time and end up giving a kill, or are unable to take an objective/get a kill, it's a win to me.

Remember, Nasus E does magic damage. If he ranks this ability up first, you may want to consider prioritizing items accordingly. (Hexdrinker, Abyssal scepter (Kennen), qss or other tanky items depending on your champion.)

I hope some of this helps!

FortMonty5/30/2015, 2:09:21 AM1 votes

I appreciate the quick response Endless and it actually really makes sense. I think a lot of my issue with Nasus comes from my perception of him so I'll have to overcome that and these tips will help that. Thanks!

Oh and I only used Jax as an example, I don't think Jax is ever a good pick vs Nasus lol, he's just the champion I thought of at the time of writing.

After hearing it this way, I think I can try to relieve some of my issues with Nasus, I still think he's inherently a poorly designed champion, but I guess I'll have to overcome that.

FortMonty5/30/2015, 2:16:55 AM1 votes

Also thanks for the advice overall guys, I only read Endless' at first and then refreshed and saw others lol. Glad I got a quick response, cause I was pulling hairs on it.

NemeBro5/30/2015, 1:32:22 AM1 votes

Overall I'd say your post contained solid advice, but there's one thing I dispute:

NEVER pick Yorick into Nasus.

Nasus can sustain through Yorick's harass and, worse still, farm your ghouls to better stack his Q. In fact, it is actually preferable for Nasus to farm Q stacks through ghouls when they're around, and just last hit the minions. This will make it far easier to keep the wave pushed to Nasus' tower, as well as farm in general. Sustain in general is Yorick's downfall, and Nasus has a lot of it.