J4 In Need of some Balance Changes?

cheesydeth·1/23/2015, 12:12:28 PM·4 votes·1,190 views

Let's start with his passive:

Martial Cadence: J4 deals 10% of his targets current health as bonus physical damage with a 10/8/6 second cooldown for repeat targets

His passive isn't the problem, there are plenty of current health champions, abilities, and items that don't create a complete over bearing feel in lane. Just this alone would be fine, but let's take a look at his q, the real meat in his kit

Dragon Strike: Mana Cost: 45/50/55/60/65 Range: 770 (longer than most melee basic abilities and even a handful of the ranged champions) Physical Damage: 70/115/160/205/250 (+120% Bonus ad) Armor reduction: 10/17/18/22/26%

His q has a higher ration than more than a few ultimates as well as reducing armor by 26% at max level, not a flat 26, a percentile 26 which if I am not totally mistaken is applied before armor pen, please correct me if I am wrong on this one. I personally feel as though this ability is incredibly overbearing in lane/jungle especially when you consider he already does current health damage from his passive on top of reducing armor an absolutely incredible amount. The scaling is incredibly one sided, it basically means he can deal massive amounts of damage with very little actual risk to himself with a range of 770 from his melee range of 175. That is an absolute insane range increase on an incredibly powerful basic ability that ALSO has the ability to apply a knock-up when combo'd with his e giving him massive damage/cc all in one fluid basic ability rotation. There are very few things that can actually stop this combo. This isn't about his cc or combo though without the combo he'd probably be pretty bullocks with the way his kit is set-up so we'll leave his cc combo alone. I don't see it as a horrible problem it just makes counterplay incredibly difficult as well as giving him the ability to gank from almost anywhere.

Golden Aegis: Cost: 30 (at all ranks) Range: 300 Cooldown: 20/18/16/14/12 Shield Strength: 50/90/130/170/210 (+20/30/40/50/60 Per nearby enemy champion) Maximum Shield Strength: 150/240/330/420/510 Slow: 15/20/25/30/35%

This ability isn't the absolute worst, I find most of the issue with J4 to be coming from his Passive and his q. However, the incredible power behind this cannot be ignored. Again, it's not really the problem, but I do find the scaling to be a bit on the excessive side, especially considering that it scales based on how many champions are hit within the radius when it's activated. Also the range isn't horrid it ends up being slightly smaller than Catclysm's circle. The main problem I have with this is it's lack of a scaling mana cost, it's 30 at all ranks making it a completely risk free ability at all levels of play. Maybe needs to be tweaked a bit, again that isn't the issue I personally see with his kit.

Demcian Standard: Cost: 55 (at all ranks) Range: 850 Cooldown: 13 Passive: Permanently grants J4 armor and attack speed Armor: 10/13/16/19/22 Attack Speed: 10/13/16/19/22% Magic Damage: 60/105/150/195/240 (+80% AP) Attack Speed Aura: 10/13/16/19/22%

I don't see much issue with this due to the fact that it does provide his main form of ganking and cc. I mean it does permanently grant him massive boosts to his armor and attack speed which makes fighting him harder and harder even if he builds straight tank. The standard grants vision, within 700 range and increases attack speed of ally champions up to 600 range. I am not entirely certain how to feel about this ability because it does scale off of ap which takes down the oomf behind it a bit. However, the permanent armor and attack speed seems a little odd, considering that most champions with a passive like this only have one stat that is effected. So j4 having two that are effected by the same basic ability just feels really steamrolley in game.

Cataclysm: Cost: 100/125/150 Range: 650 Cooldown: 120/105/90 Damage: 200/325/450 (+150% Bonus AD)

Jarvan Leaps to a target champion dealing physical damage and trapping them in a 350 radius impassable circle, this circle lasts 3.5 seconds and grants sight within 825 range.

I don't have much problem with his ultimate, it scales how you would expect an ultimate to scale, it's packs less range than his Dragon Strike/Standard. Yes, it deals massive damage, it is an ultimate though, so isn't that the point? Over all one of the coolest ultimate abilities in the game aesthetically and incredibly versatile with decent counterplay considering the risk in trapping and harming your own team with the ability.

J4's scaling just feels overbearing, I'll probably take an absolute beating in the comments for this post, but I honestly feel that J4 is way stronger than he should be with the possibility of building rolling defensive runes/masteries and still out tanking many champions as well as out damaging them by quite a large margin. I am not sure if this is considered balanced but I honestly feel like his power form his passive q alone makes him a tad too powerful.

Tl;dr:

Jeebus Crimminy look at the scaling on his q, good luck building armor against him. Seriously the dude makes Arnold Schwarzenegger in his prime look like Cindy Lou Who in How the Grinch Stole Christmas. His scaling is pretty out of this world on everything but his ult and he has two flat mana costs. All in all Riot, the man is handing out beatings like Muhammad Ali and nobody can stop him. Rumble in the Jungle? More like ass whooping in the everywhere.

Please look at this with an open mind, this post is just an observation I made after more than a few games seeing J4 absolutely crush any and all opposition. I would like Riot to take a comprehensive look at J4, whether people agree or disagree I feel that he's a problem that needs to be addressed especially with the changes in preseason putting him to a point of almost godly power.

11 Comments

Drunk Rummate1/23/2015, 3:06:32 PM2 votes

About a week ago I managed to win 1v1 against a hugely fed Jarvan while I was playing Sivir (I had 3 items and he had 5). I ulted and kited him, he ulted me, I flashed the ult, and he died. My friends on my ranked 5s team were praising me in skype but honestly it was kind of sad. That Jarvan had like 10 kills and a 2 levels of experience over me.

He's an extremely powerful champion early and mid, sort of like pantheon. I think the high scaling on his Q is intended to make up for the fact that he can only really afford to build a couple of damage items before building full on tanky. I don't find J4 particularly overbearing as the game goes on, but he always seems like a God to me during the lane phase.

People always joke about pantheon picks because you can be 20 kills up with a pantheon and lose anyways. He falls off super hard due to having no combat ultimate, so when people start grouping he loses a LOT of strength. J4 doesn't really have this downside like pantheon so it's difficult to say where he should be. Screw with his numbers and you'll probably end up with a really bad champion.

Nathaniell11/23/2015, 4:30:17 PM2 votes

J4 is broken. He is class of his own - I call it Tank-Assasin. His damage is just insane while he is still pretty tanky early even when building full dmg. He can 100-0 with one combo like riven. Are you 1400 range away and feeling safe? Too bad, because jarvan can still reach you.... he is just so stupid. he is melee tank with AD asasin dmg and scaling and insane gap closer + ult which can easily win TF. So lets summarize it, he has passive attack speed for him and for him and team, free % dmg, great armor penetration and base dmg rations, stupidly long Q and gap closer for melee champion + shield with slow and TF winning ult with AD carry dmg scaling... Soooo what he lacks... free CDR?

I just cant understand how can tanky character has so great dmg... % dmg, armor pene, base dmg and even scaling.

Blastermine1/23/2015, 7:36:38 PM2 votes

He currently has a 53% winrate in solo queue. Unlike Sejuani and VI, he's capable of standing up to Lee Sin in competitive . So you know, expect nerfs within a few months.

Mãge1/23/2015, 1:42:29 PM2 votes

Jarvan is kited really easily and his most damaging basic ability can be dodged. Other than that, he's a very strong tank/fighter. Most bruisers have high dueling power and higher base stats than the rest of the champion pool. That's characteristic of the champion class. In order to beat him, try increasing your numbers (deal with him with a teammate, or from a distance). Flash also works wonders to get you out of his ultimate.

Raptamei1/24/2015, 1:40:58 PM1 votes

Remove the armor shred and change his passive.

Thomashy1/23/2015, 3:16:49 PM1 votes

LOL just because you got rekt by one jarvan in one game in a normal does not justify you to complain about anything.

d3r3k1/23/2015, 3:54:58 PM1 votes

The only real part of his kit thats broken is his passive. When he ganks and can get an auto off- it's game over....Especially if he can get a Q+E on you. Too easy

cheesydeth1/23/2015, 12:26:39 PM1 votes

I am trying to make an edit currently for the tl;dr, I do not like this edit system Sam I am, I miss the forum edit system kinda like I miss green eggs and ham.

Edit of the post about being able to edit: I figured it out, take that college kids!