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"OP" Champions, Why Riot should adress this issue?

Khazaad··2 votes·1,327 views

First a little bit of Context, I've been playing this game since the mid of 2013, i am not a pro and I've never been interested in the forum before, i am Gold V, i didn't play season 3 because i thought i wasn't good enough, and i try to have a good time while i win, i am not the most supportive player nor the most toxic, average all over the place.

Now "The Problem" itself, As long as i can remember there has always been this so called "OP Champions" I.E: RivenRiven , many would argue that this is a really noob-ish thing to say, but please humor me for the sake of the argument, Riven is overall a really strong champion especially in low tiers (the only one i know sadly), she doesn't have any stat particularly strong or weak but her skill set is just brutal, and everything scales extremely well with her AD, she has a dash, a shield, AoE and a Stun, all wrapped in a more than decent cool down and a fantastic AD bonus scaling bonus...

Now why do this matter? League is a game of skill, in theory, a pro player can defeat any other player with any champion configuration, but for the rest of the mortals, the difference between knowing a "champ" and playing it for the first time is BIG, this difference gets less noticeable in higher tiers because usually to reach a certain Rank you must know a thing or two about the game that applies, more or less, to everyone. The problem begins when two players with the same level of skill face each other. According to what Riot says there is a concept behind every champion, and a certain role they fill, such as Assasins, Marksmans, Tanks, Fighters, Mages and Supports, each and one of this roles has a certain pattern, I.E: assassins have high burst capability but are squishy, or tanks who cant deal huge amounts of damage but can endure a lot of punishment, this plus the different skill sets would mean that every champion has a distinctive way to achieve victory, every champions has their own mechanics and synergy. This leads to the "Riven" Problem, Riven is a champion who can deal huge amounts of damage, endure a lot of punishment or run if the situation requires it(this also means that she can shorten the gap between range and melee "champs") her skills just fulfill every role, and we players know this, Riven is just overall a great champion, sure you can find a more resilient or faster champion but all together at the same time just breaks the point of the game, i remember lee sin being unstoppable, a lee sin was able to win a game by himself, thankfully a few changes where made and that's not the case anymore. the point is that Riot should pay more attention to what champions are considered "Too Strong" and fix them as fast as they can instead of wait for the Championships and make changes according to what the "Pros" do... I have been in games where everyone picks a OP Champion because: they want to win... you are suppose to pick the champion that fits your way of play the best not just some "OP" champion because you want to win... this is about skill not "Winning by any means necessary" , Having a champion like Fiora who can just rush Hydra and win hurts the game, having a Riven who is all the roles in one without having a clear concept hurts the game, a Yorick with almost infinite sustain, a Warwick with unparalleled brawler potential, all of this champions lack a clear concept, they are just "strong", i have no idea what they where suppose to be except that if i want to win then i should pick them..

In My Opinion Riot should address this Issues, this unclear Champions, having an unstoppable killing machine in your game makes everything boring, every time i want to win i pick X because he will obliterate all the other champions? that's just wrong, what is the point of having so many different characters if you only see a bunch of them, if your heroes are not balanced rework them, stop creating new champs with "awesome new concepts" and try to find real concepts for the champions you already have, i don't care about graphics, sure i enjoy them but the game is still the same, and the game play doesn't get any better. Fix your Champions Stay true to your own words Good Luck and Have Fun

PS: On the riven Subject at least take the scaling AD for her dash and make it shorter than a flash, but i still want to know her concept. PSS: It's late so forgive any mistakes PSSS: Thanks for reading, have a good day/night

34 Comments

EffectFX8 votes

Or you could become a better player and learn how to deal with these champions. You don't need to be a pro to do that.

Remlap12231 votes

To be fair, unless you're Cho'Gath or Nunu, there's no dealing with Yorick. There's a reason why he's never on free rotation.

EffectFX3 votes

That may have been true a year ago but not now.

Devis Tator1 votes

Or better yet thats what makes you a pro...

EffectFX3 votes

Takes more than that to be a pro.

Devis Tator1 votes

Cant be a pro without knowing that. Every bit of knowledge that makes you better than you were yesterday is a step closer to being a pro. You dont just become a pro from this. Its how you can become better, and once u reach the skill cap, you are essentially a pro. Learn more, play more, get better, become better, play better.

EffectFX1 votes

Cool story bro.

redniwediS5 votes

None of the champions you mentioned are "OP". You're looking at the classical downsides of each role instead of the practical downsides of each individual champion.

Riven is weaker to CC than many champions, requires a large amount of gold to stay useful, and falls off drastically come late game. Put someone who can absorb her early game damage and also deal damage in return against her and she will fall far behind.

Fiora only has raw offensive power, and if that power is denied (which is rather easy with good teamwork) she is utterly useless, even when fed. If you face her with someone who can offer map pressure through pushing power all you have to do is survive lane. If she has to constantly defend against you when she is unable to kill you her presence in the game will be rather low.

Yorick is a jack of all trades, with sustain, tank, damage, and range, but as with all who are good at everything he fails when faced with champions who do each area better. Pick a master in one of these areas and so long as you play to your strengths and not his you should do well.

Warwick, with the new jungle changes, became a rather big issue. His ability to apply on hit effects with his ult used to be one of his greatest benefits, but ended up being the final straw, causing a nerf that hurt any Warwick build that does not require these (arguably) still broken items. He is a one trick pony, which makes him weak against high utility junglers.

You can call for nerfs all you like, but people have figured out how to counter each of these champions already. You can stick with the idea that champions like these four are simply "OP" or you can join everyone who knows not only how to handle a difficult matchup, but how to learn from it to make similar matchups easier in the future.

Khazaad1 votes

I mentioned this champions as an example from the top of my head, i am not whining about how bad i am and how i want them nerfed, i just think that Riot should be careful about the Concept behind the game itself, of course there is ways of defeating all of them, i myself don't have a problem with them, but i have noticed a lot of people playing some of them because "they are an easy victory", what kind of game is that? i am looking for the improvement of the game, there will always be some champions stronger than other, but i think that riot should try to make this very punctual.

Talamare2 votes

Riven has a very specific rhythm that isn't too difficult to get used to

Plenty of champions are way more OP and more difficult to counter, like Lee Sin

Joecelin2 votes

People like riven and fiora need to get ahead to be useful careful play early on will screw them up pretty bad people like yorick are strong early but fall off pretty hard in comparison to the meta top laners then warwick from my understanding is largely useless after the nerf to both the jungle item and his ult

these statements are not opinions i came up with but consensus from various much higher tier players that are nice enough to dedicate their time to making videos and guides across multiple platforms id advise if you are having trouble fighting them watch how d1-challenger players deal with those champions and make steps in that direction

Talamare1 votes

{quoted}

these statements are not opinions i came up with but consensus from various much higher tier players that are nice enough to dedicate their time to making videos and guides across multiple platforms id advise if you are having trouble fighting them watch how d1-challenger players deal with those champions and make steps in that direction

Well, "pub stomping" is a very serious issue Only like 25% of this game's population are gold or higher

So balancing for Silver and Bronze that contains 75% of players is also important

Kuroi862 votes

So balancing for Silver and Bronze that contains 75% of players is also important

Except the game would never be balanced then. The game is balanced around the higher tiers as in those divisions the champions are played to their highest potential. There is some thought given to the lower tiers, but the game cannot be fully balanced around it. High tier play would be an absolute mess and balance would shift so hard each patch there would literally be no reason to pick a main.

Khazaad1 votes

i agree, is hard to balance for everyone, but there are patterns that you cant deny and should be adressed in order to make a serious game, you cant have a champ carrying you from bronze V to Gold V just because he is OP, that is just wrong, people who nerf and just buys one champion and then takes the account to plat V without much problem shouldn't be a thing.

Devis Tator1 votes

How is the champion OP? Isnt the player just better than everyone else?

wolfax3 votes

How do you balance around the lower end though? There are a myriad of people who fail for an even greater number of reasons. Person A might suck at pushing an advantage, so they lose more often. Person B might suck at farming, so they lose more often. Person C might suck at warding so gets ganked and loses more often. See where I'm going with this? Covering all these issues simultaneously would be near impossible.

At least the higher levels tend to not fail in every area. The higher you get the more it's due to a champion itself rather than the player.

Khazaad1 votes

I know there is ways of defeating everyone, but i am talking about how overall they are really strong, how there is no concept behind them, just a mix of powerful skills and stats, i have defeated all of them but some champions just don't have a reason to exist... i personally disagree with all this "Meta" and "Counter" concepts of the game, i think that you should play something that makes you happy, play in any position you like and still have chances of succeeding, knowing your champion and learning his mechanics should be the important part of the game, i myself carried extremely hard with fiora the first time i used her, this cannot be, this means that there is a problem there, same with fizz, first time i played him i raped my lane, how can this be? if it's my first time i should lose, that's how you learn and improve... i can understad the concept behind fizz being a trickster and such, trolling with his jumping around, very much like Gnar, but for the rest of them...

BluePolarizer1 votes

are you an ADC main?

Devis Tator1 votes

If you can reply to me that'd be great.

What is your standings in Ranked. Solo Q or Ranked Q. What is your rank??

Khazaad2 votes

Solo Q, Gold V if you are asking me :)

Devis Tator1 votes

Ok so im going to be very "real", rational, realistic and quite frankly this is the truth.

You are only in Gold 5. Gold 5 has literally become the new Bronze, because they keep pushing the tiers up and making it easier to rank up. That being said, Even if you do not consider Gold to be the new Bronze, you are still so low in the ranking system that you cannot possibly have mastered a champion to its full potential yet. Nor has anyone in Gold tier mastered a champion completely either. The only exception is a smurf from challenger tier.

THAT being said, since you nor anyone you are playing with has fully mastered the capabilities of the champion that they are using, there is no such thing as an "OP Champ". Every champion is "OP" because if no one knows how to play to 100% of their capabilities, that one person who has gotten closer than anyone else can make a champion seem like it is absolutely and completely overpowered.

This is literally the same with every champion in the game. I've seen a Teemo go ADC, and become legendary with a K/D of 11/2. I have personally gone 14/4 and single handedly carried our entire team to victory. I have seen a pantheon jungle absolutely obliterate my team and get wrecked in 22 minutes. Rek'sai's have literally killed someone on every gank and is virtually unkillable. Rivens have annihilated their top lane opponents and could easily win a 1v3. Tristanas going 22/2 Jinx going 15/3

MUST I GO ON?

There is literally no possible way to accurately depict a champion to be "Overpowered" in the Gold rank tier. The players are not skilled enough to be able to handle a matchup against someone they are not very very familiar with. While i can agree that rivens kit is very powerful and pretty much one of the strongest level 6 engages as far as extra damage from her ultimate and passive, she is not very useful if she does not build almost 100% damage. You need to pick someone who scales very tanky in order to survive her burst. Or try taking exhaust.

The only way to legitimately decipher if a champion is truly overpowered is if the maximum capabilities, meaning the pros, to use the champions in a way that the only variable is the champion, and not the skill level of the player.

Because 9 times out of 10, its the players skill level and mechanics that is making the champion "OP" because everyone elses skill level and mechanics are inferior to that one person.

Do you honestly expect to win Top lane against someone who has played 220 games of riven this season, when you have played maybe 50 games of your champion? That person has way more experience playing his champion in different scenerios against different champions.

Its like playing a sport. Is a NBA player better than a NCAA player? Probably. He already went through what u went through and more. Theres no way you could know more about the game than that guy.

There are more variables in this game than just the champions. You can apply nerfs and reworks on every champion until its practically a Call of Duty where you shoot 2 bullets and get a kill. Anyone can pick it up and kill someone with hardly any skill. This game is very very skilled, and requires an emmense amout of knowledge of the game, champions, cooldowns, items, spells, map awareness and teamwork, that you seriously, and i mean SERIOUSLY cannot keep coming to the forums and complaining that a champion is too powerful because he went 22/4 in a game you played. Hes obviously better than you, and its the same as a regular Call of Duty game where someone gets 28 kills. But you honestly dont see those players going to the game makers and telling them that the gun that guy was using is "Overpowered". That guy is obviously just better than the rest of the players.

Do you feel me bro? Do you FEEEEELLLLLL Me??? Because i really wanna know if you feel me on this.

Stephenizgod1 votes

Well actually i disagree with the whole Gold can't master a champion. My friend is really really good with Talon, i have only seen him lose lane once, but he came back and still carried the game. He only lost because he was trying a new movement speed Talon build which didn't work so well early-mid game. I mean i can't say he mastered Talon, because i haven't personally played with someone who has mastered Talon, but i can tell when he is playing Talon he is really freaking good, like worlds above the people he is playing with.

Edit: haha i forgot to mention the most important part of this reply. My friend is in Gold.

Devis Tator1 votes

"I disagree with the whole Gold can't master a champion" Then you say "I mean i can't say he mastered Talon, because i haven't personally played with someone who has mastered Talon"

Do you simply not believe it, or do u have physical experience or evidence of a gold tier ACTUALLY mastering a champion? You contradicted yourself.

You disagree yet you essentially say that he didnt master him, which is exactly what i was saying in this entire post. so please dont disagree with me until you fully understand what i am saying. Thank you for the reply though!

Stephenizgod1 votes

Eh sorry if you misunderstood what i meant was, I cant for sure say he has mastered Talon, because to do that i need to understand what mastering a champion is like. I have never played with a master Talon either so i know my word doesn't mean much, all i know is my friend might have mastered Talon so its not true to say that a Gold can't master a champion.

My bad that i worded that too difficult for some to understand my meaning, just saying that you might not be correct but i might be wrong. Besides i consider my friend a master Talon player (if he actually played Talon in more games im sure he could be Diamond or Master, he gets bored though or he doesnt always get mid) regardless of whether im qualified to say it or not.

And i never said he didnt master him, only that my word is questionable to others since i am not that good at this game...

But thank you for being an ass :).

Devis Tator1 votes

My reasoning, is that if someone truly masters a champion, they should not be in Gold. If they have mastered the champion, they are going to be better than anyone else who plays who has not mastered their champion. The only way to do that is to be in the upper tiers like Diamond 1 or Challenger. Because if everyone mastered their champions, then Gold would be the start of the Pro's Tier.

Stephenizgod1 votes

Yeah i got ya, the reason he is Gold is because he gets bored of Talon or he just doesn't get mid (also you cant carry every game). He also doesn't care about his rank tbh he is satisfied with Gold for the end of season rewards.

Zen Fury1 votes

{quoted}

Well actually i disagree with the whole Gold can't master a champion. My friend is really really good with Talon, i have only seen him lose lane once, but he came back and still carried the game. He only lost because he was trying a new movement speed Talon build which didn't work so well early-mid game. I mean i can't say he mastered Talon, because i haven't personally played with someone who has mastered Talon, but i can tell when he is playing Talon he is really freaking good, like worlds above the people he is playing with.

Edit: haha i forgot to mention the most important part of this reply. My friend is in Gold.

I don't think you truly appreciate the gap in skill between a gold level player and a master level player. It's like you're high school football team going up against the Dallas Cowboys.

Stephenizgod1 votes

No i do understand it, my friend is good at this game his mechanics are kinda there, he wards, he knows when to push, he knows how to farm, but he doesnt always do good. So id say he belongs in gold maybe high plat if he would stop playing unfamiliar champions in ranked.

But when he plays Talon its like no one can even stand up to him anymore, like he switches with someone waaay above his skill level. I dont understand how he can be kinda good/mediocre with most champions, but then be so godly with Talon. We destroy every game he is Talon (as long as there are no trolls) he makes little to no mistakes, and if he does make a mistake he immediately learns how to not do it again. Only with Talon though, its seriously weird how much synergy he has with Talon.

Thats all i meant about him "mastering" Talon, you kinda need to play with him to fully understand.

Khazaad1 votes

I am not whining about how bad i am or how i cant defeat this champions, i am concerned about the game itself, if riot says that there is a concept behind their champions and there is a reason for everything, i am just wondering what is the meaning of having this extremely strong champions, of course they can be defeated, been there, done it, but the problem is more deep than that, the game is going to start crackling if everything goes to the same champions over and over again

Devis Tator1 votes

The same champions will be played over and over again forever if the opposing team cannot find a way to beat it. You dont see people playing the same champions or matchups in the pro games like you are claiming you see in gold.

Colgate Minuette1 votes

Simple fixes to all these champions:

Riven: Don't get near her early game. Her power comes from her auto attacks between her Q hits, just stay away from her. Go Gnar and hit her at max range with your Q, not that hard. Just stay away from her.

Fiora: Don't hit her when she activates her dodge abilities. It negates all your attacks, save them for when it's down. And again, stay away from her.

Yorick: No one plays Yorick, is this really an issue?

Warwick: Just STAY AWAY FROM HIM. IT's not that hard to keep at a distance dude. His ult has range, yes. But if you stay OUT of that range there is nothing he can do. What's hilarious is when the WW comes into lane, lead him toward river (If you're in mid) Then when he's just about to get in range for his ult, flash toward your turret. You're now out of range again and safe.

Colgate Minuette1 votes

Forgot to mention this. All the champions you're complaining about are MELEE CHAMPIONS.

They have to be powerful because they don't have the range to keep away from damage attacks. The champions are strong because you let them get close, stay back and away from them and you'll never have a problem.

They are balanced champions.

EndlessSorcerer1 votes

Best advice I can probably give you: if you are having difficulties playing against a champion, you should try and play that champion for a few games so you can learn their strengths, weaknesses, and playstyle.

The thing with league, and most MOBAs, is that there are rarely overpowered champions. Occasionally, some champions may be slightly overtuned for their role or the game, but that's a result of how difficult games with many variables are to balance and a constantly changing meta.

The champions which may be considered OP change with every patch (so Riot is dealing with them), however players have to do their part as well. As an example, Mundo and Shyvana were considered by many to be overpowered in the top lane at the beginning of Season 4 due to the mastery changes. While they had their time of dominance, Trundle began being picked because he could counter tanks very well with his ultimate (before Riot eventually nerfed the Perseverance mastery and them).

Honestly, at most levels of play how 'powerful' a champion is isn't that important unless the difference is severe. Most players can't really play a champion to their full abilities or make other mistakes in play (positioning, rotations, combos, CSing, communication, trading, etc) that will have more impact on the game than the champions selected.

Every champion in the game has weaknesses and strengths which should be understood to play as and against them. Nasus can survive most lanes and grow very powerful, but he doesn't provide much for his team early in the game so you can either deny Nasus or snowball your team to increase their strength. Riven is a good laner and duelist, but she's not as good in teamfights or sieges unless she's been fed. Leblanc is very powerful in early laning with high kill pressure, but she has difficulty in mid- to late-game teamfights due to low utility and AoE damage.

To deal with the champions you specifically mentioned: Fiora Fiora is a feast-or-famine champions who needs to snowball early to remain significant. She has minimal sustain before lifesteal (her passive isn't really that good) and remains squishy the entire game, so landing a since CC on her should result in her death. Her ultimate makes her untargetable, but it does not remove damage over time affects and cannot affect champions who are untargetable, so building Zhonya's Hourglass or picking a champion with untargetability (Fizz, Maokai, Vladimir, Master Yi, etc) or targetted CC (Ryze, Irelia, Maokai, etc) you can prevent her from taking action. Fiora is also very easy to bully out of lane early in the game, so she's easy to shut down to the point she can't really come back into the game without a major mistake on the part of her opposing team.

Riven Very snowball dependent to be useful later in the game, so if you play safe and miss CS which are too dangerous to take, you should be able to fight her or outperform her in teamfights if you don't feed. Well timed CC can wreck her since it denies her mobility and her shield, which are her main survival tools. With proper positioning in teamfights, Riven shouldn't be able to reach your backline easily without flash unless you misplay. Yorick Very high mana costs early game and he doesn't scale that well. Yorick's job is to shut down his opponent in lane and prevent them from scaling, so you have to try and get whatever gold and experience you can without letting him poke you out. Yorick has a lot of sustain and damage early if you straight up fight him, so just focus on farming and outscale him. Warwick Warwick was nerfed in the last patch due to his synergy with the new jungle. When dealing with Warwick, remember that his ultimate has a fairly short range and is single target, so squishy champions should stay near allies who can interrupt the ultimate. In addition, Warwick has no gap-closer without his ultimate (aside from a situational movespeed buff) so he is susceptible to flows and peel after his ultimate has been used. Grievous Wounds is valuable to prevent Warwick from sustaining through any damage dealt to him. He doesn't really have any early bully potential due to his mana costs and, while he's difficult to shove out of lane or the jungle, he can't really shove other champions out either.

Stephenizgod1 votes

Well if someone picks Riven i pick Garen. I see so many people and posts saying Riven is too OP or just too strong, but honestly ive never thought that. Obviously i have lost to Riven before, several times, but in ranked its pretty easy to counter pick her. Garen and Darius do really well against her normally and those two are my favorite Top picks. Malzahar top (i know its a weird pick) does really well against her, in Mid lane not so well since she can traverse the entire lane in one combo. I think Renekton is still a good pick against her, he is an even crazier lane bully...

Fiora... Fiora is strong sure, but easily outplayed by certain champions. She is weak to CC and as long as she never catches you she can't really do anything. Plus her ults cooldown is pretty huge. There are actually a lot of champions that are good at stopping her or shutting her down, im pretty sure Darius is really good against her since his bleed will still hurt her while she is ulting.

Yorick hmm, strong champion sure, annoying mostly, but still not much of a problem. I have beaten Yoricks with Garen multiple times, Darius, Fiora a few times (some times as a jungler holding lane), Jarvan, Malzahar every single time i fight him, and Karma in a 3v3 if i remember correctly. It could be I'm fighting bad Yoricks, I'm actually pretty sure that's it actually, but I've never had too much of a problem with him other then he annoyed the hell out of me in lane.

Warwick is really annoying, i don't like fighting against him all that much. The only good thing is he wont gank pre-6 or at least not too often, so you don't have to worry about over-extending too much. If your team has some good CC and is good at using it then his ult isn't too bad.

There are a few OP champions (Warwick before they just patched him), Fizz and Zed are two champions i see complained about a lot (and for good reason), but its not like they are unstoppable. My friend beat a Fizz with Talon even though their entire team thought Fizz was going to destroy (Fizz included of course), in fact i don't think my friend died that game. I have even beat Fizz with Gnar twice, i don't really get how. I main Malz so Zed isn't too much to fear for me.

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