@Riot state of Nasus in season 6

Carnarius·11/3/2015, 3:18:50 AM·14 votes·9,148 views

nasus is a champion that has been hit directly and indirectly multiple times in the past 3 seasons. nerfs for tank items, buffs for ad items (especially implementing black cleaver), making the game faster, introducing refreshed juggernauts (funny fact, as nasus is juggernaut after all, yet patch 5.16 made him completely unviable) and many many more changes that made him what he is now, pretty much only jungler dependant champion, which is completely random.

From the point of view of high elo nasus main with hundreds of games with him, what things look like:

for early game: -he can't farm as he used to do, as he gets bullied out of lane too easily by majority of champions right now. this was different, but recent reworks, armor nerfs and overall favourizing damage over tankiness changed it heavily -he can't trade, for obvious reasons So for early game, he can't do pretty much rather than trying to somehow farm, and hoping for not being killed in 1v2 situation under turret

for mid game: after rough early in most cases, there is not much nasus can do. he can either try to splitpush, which will have poor effect as almost every team starts the game with 1-2 teleports, or he can try to teamfight, which is probably the best idea as he reaches his biggest powerspike in mid game. this is illusion though, comparing to other juggernauts, his potential is very limited and easily counterable. his slow can and will be cleansed if cast onto adc, and after that he becomes just a bag of walking hp, as he won't reach his main targets, and the only thing he would do is targeting tanks and providing a bit of aoe damage from his ult

for end game: contrary to popular belief, nasus end game is really poor. it's purpose lies in huge amount of stacks (most likely 600-800+), but it can't be used if he can't reach primary targets, which is nearly impossible. even if enemy team doesn't have too many tools for stoping him, items like rylai will make sure he will not do anything more than hitting tanks for 250 damage per q. so the main possibility is splitpush yet again, but as i said it's limited, besides, he most likely won't be able to duel even 1 defending champion (riven, fiora, darius, gnar), as black cleaver is just too powerful right now and provides too much power in an end game fantasy

so in conclusion, there is no point to pick nasus right now. basically all of top lane champions have way more tools for being both dangerous and tanky, while still having great late game. nasus has neither of them, and even if he gets ahead with jungler help, he got outclassed in terms of both teamfighting and providing utility for his team. but the real problem is, current preseason changes look even more dreadful for him: -changing triforce for being more adc oriented item (this is his core item, and after change it will be WAY worse) -introducing rift herald, which will make top lane a bit more objective oriented and bit less of an island (which is exactly opposite what nasus player wants) -nerfing defensive mastery tree (no crit damage reduction, no flat armor/magic resist, no 4% aoe dmg reduction and few more) -implementing items that will deal with him even more effectively (new last whisper, for example)

with all these indirect nerfs, i'm worried that nasus will turn from not worth picking right now to something words cannot describe. i believe he needs some kind of compensation, like improving his kit like you did with other juggernauts (they all have now way to heal themselves), or just increasing his base stats and stats per level so they could match with stats of reworked champions (in all honesty, nasus stats are really low as for immobile meele champion). he is purely outclassed not only by juggernauts, but really by most of all toplaners

thanks for hearing me out, i'd be grateful for any response

40 Comments

Daedalus87111/3/2015, 6:07:00 AM4 votes

So Nasus isn't a champion I really care about, so I really just skimmed it, but I did see you complaining about Tri-force changes, and I completely disagree with you about it.

You give up: 3% MS, 15% AS, 5 AD, and 30 AP.

The 3% MS is probably the biggest change, but that's like 10 MS. Probably not really going to change anything. 15% AS. Yeah, like Nasus is going to miss that. 5 AD, you literally Q a single cannon minion, it you've made it up. 30 AP. This is the second biggest thing he is going to miss. But again we're talking about, 18 magic damage, 3.6 damage per second, or 4.5% max health missing less on his entire ult. Of course, that requires for them to be in the AoE for the entire time.

You get: 10% CD, 50 Mana, and 10% crit. 10% CD is a huge buff to Nasus. Even better, it now builds out of a base item that he can rush. This is a huge buff to him. 50 Mana. Even if we assumed no regen, this is an extra 2 and a half Q's before going oom. With regen, with the extra time it takes to spend it probably means he gets a couple more too. 10% Crit. Okay, Nasus doesn't really care about it too much, but if you have crit, more is nice.

Carnarius11/3/2015, 6:48:44 PM3 votes

it won't have huge effect. the buff in life steal is too tiny itself to be noticeable, especially while most bruisers can take half of nasus hp in one quick combo early on

Romans VI XXIII11/3/2015, 3:35:06 AM2 votes

but on the other hand AP susan rocks!

Phoenix Kotori 2/2/2016, 6:34:17 PM2 votes

He needs a rework, face it no one wants to see current nasus strong.

Yaskamasandwich11/3/2015, 5:18:35 AM1 votes

I hear the new changes to item 3025 is nasty on him now. It is preseason so nothing will be known for sure, and it is the best time to experiment and change. However anyway even before then tanks and melee late game champions are suffering huge hits. Nasus Sion are suffering from Riot's decision to make all tanks (Nasus included because he builds tank items, yes he isn't a tank but it still effected him) mid game only champions, never late. They also suffer the fact that they're at this point Half-Juggernauts, Half-Tanks. They're immobile, and have cc that is single target, or unreliable aoe. Also instead of having the option of building juggernaut items and having juggernaut stats, they are forced to build tank items and rush CDR. This is very very VERY bad for champions like those two and many more because they were designed to be late game raid bosses.

Sejuani Is also suffering from this because her design was a tank with the kit to jump on the marksman and tear them apart, she hates marksmen finding them cowardly. Her early game was pitiful but her late game was strong for her kit. Unfortunately her kit is toxic from a standpoint and does need to be fixed ... again The fact she has mobility, group distortion, and assassin based style all mixed into one is bad.

Anyway so either two things need to be done (or possibly more) about the infinite scaling Nasus Sion . Option one is remove their infinity and convert them into what Riot wants, mid game champs. Or let them keep it and turn them into actual Juggernauts, not Half-Juggernaut, Half-tank hybrids that get worst of both worlds. Sejuani Should probably be turned into a juggernaut too, removing her group distortion and mobility, but change her kit to be more about her marksman hate, also may give her a difference between her and Amumu . Yeah they're not exactly the same, both have different goals. But they just seem so similar enough that it is bad enough.

Remember start of preseason 5 how only viable junglers were Vi LeeSin JarvanIV and seldom RekSai. Then item 3725 came out and brought tanks into the limelight and after the first few tweaks it became more in tuned and perfect. Then it was nerfed to the ground, but point is change happens during preseason. So lets hope some of the champions left high and dry get some love.

Fadedpf11/3/2015, 3:50:44 AM1 votes

Should have named the title State of Tanks season 6. Recent reworks with heavy anti tank measures, tank champions and tank item nerfs served out non stop through season 5, and now the completely stupid ADC reworks making their items uncounterable and unbelievably one sided and toxic means tanks wont exist during preseason or ever until these things are addressed and balanced.

Harrada11/3/2015, 9:27:33 AM1 votes

Im gunna play Vayne/Graves top, rush executioners calling, and take a big steaming dump on his sustain for the low price of 800g which conveniently builds into a core item at just about the same price it currently is. And I am going to do this VS every sustain reliant champion in the game until they correct this horrendous mistake.

Sasogwa11/3/2015, 11:29:32 AM1 votes

Imo Riot needs to buff Nasus' lategame some way (increased power in Wither for more 'DPS shutdown'? Increased resistances somewhere in his kit (while inside his E for instance?) Less easy to kite, with some slow resistance/tenacity?) Nasus' design is all about having bad early for decent midgame and great lategame, which isn't the case at all right now. Sadly, mostly due to other champions level of melting power and mobility. I guess it would be extremely difficult to rebalance him. I hope Riot considers this and tries to do something about it.

PS : also, increased gold gain indirectly defavours Nasus because he's more about stacks than gold/experience.

Carnarius11/3/2015, 1:15:53 PM1 votes

i believe that increasing both price and power of armor items would solve problems not only for nasus, but for all end game tanks that are suffering right now. it would push dominating bruisers a little bit back, as tanks would have great end game options and wouldn't get melted so fast as it is now. in the other hand, it would be great for balance. the only way of being tanky right now is coming fed into mid game as a full tank, then yeah, you can say you are really hard to kill. other than that, let's face it, tanks still are getting destroyed when adc/apc reach their core items + penetration. and of course we have black cleaver, which is just heavily overloaded in my opinion. this 1 item makes tanks not tanky anymore

qetzel11/3/2015, 5:21:10 PM1 votes

Have you considered how the more accessible lifesteal mastery might affect him? it could be a decent enough indirect buff.

Pupel11/3/2015, 3:49:28 AM1 votes

i agree with you but Riot has said that they are not answering questions specific to a certain champion balance atm so you might want to try again later. I main Nasus in Gold atm and while i find no problem farming early (averaging 375 stacks by 20) i do feel the issues of what to do mid game where i know i am stronger than any one champ but in a team fight i feel useless as i am so slow just waltzing up to a target. I was thinking making his E do a percent armor shred instead of a flat would balance him so he would have equal thret to tanks as well as squishies or make his W steal MS so he could close in on his targets eaiser because all of the other Juggernauts (except Morde who does more damage) have much better gap closing (Darius: pull and slowx2 Garen: speed boost + silence Skarner: slow, stun, pull). Late game i just end up standing on my ADC so whacking at anyone who tries to get them which are usually tanks that dont really care at that point.

LordXemnas2311/13/2015, 4:49:55 PM1 votes

The game is really good, but the thing that ticks me off a bit is that there's that ONE champ that's way more op than the rest. And yes, depending on how they play will have a role, but let's get on with it.

Garen: The Demacian knight has NO mana what so ever, the only thing holding him back is cool down. The way he could be rebalanced is at least tone down his AD a bit, then have a rage system for him (kinda like renekton) to where he can strategically use it to pull some powerful combos, but as it stands, he's just the annoying cool down tank.

Teemo: Ah yes, the annoying, blow-pipe wielding yordle that makes you cringe when you see his silouhette on the other team. Although one of my recent fights, I actually managed to kill him a few times, first 2 times with help of jungler and I was playing as nasus (and this is season 6.) however, he's still annoying, without some magic resist items, he still dominates, but if you have atleast spectres cowl early game and your a tank, just tank him, and as the game progresses and you have atleast one or two magic resist items, he doesn't do as much damage.

The six marksmen: Of the six marksmen that got changes in season six, they now feel broken for some reason. In late game, corki can drain your health in two seconds flat if he has the right items, Quinn feels fast and can dodge all of your attacks (probably because I haven played against her that much idk.) Over all, I think I just gotta get used to season six changes before I can truly rant.

Master Yi: The wuju blades man has a cool look and background, but his Q I think it is where he disappears and does three quick slashes is a bit op since he can't be touched during that time, so late game he's very op.

There are still some broken characters in my opinion that aren't listed, like riven. it's still a great game, but it just needs a bit more balancing so some champs don feel dominant over EVERY other champ in the game (I also feeling the hate that will come with this comment.)

Carnarius11/13/2015, 5:20:02 PM1 votes

well, i have a feeling that it will become even worse than it is now. new changes favourize some classes even harder, while the rest is falling behind

HOU YI PRO12/18/2015, 5:48:24 AM1 votes

i agree, graves is the top lane god shredding people like riven darius or any tank pretty much if you can play him right and place q's where it counts

Kyoufu2/1/2016, 4:58:43 PM1 votes

Well i look at your stats and you look really good as nasus. I main it but i pbly do some mistake to be as effective than you are. I Hope you can add me like that i can look at your games and learn more about my favorite champ since i start this game season 1.

Good bye and hope i see you later.

Kyoufu.

Incognonymous2/2/2016, 3:37:53 PM1 votes

I would love to see Nasus be updated and turned into a full on juggernaut. When I do see Nasus, they usually go tank, and there are certainly some good reasons for that, not the least of which is CDR and how well he uses things like SV and IBG-- but Nasus fulfills the juggernaut criteria so well that it would be nice to see more of that.

lolursoft3/18/2016, 11:58:14 PM1 votes

Though i agree with your post, you have to look at low elo as well. Nasus in low elo as of 6.5 if a free win. No one can beat him in lane anymore. i literally just played a game where a darius went 0-5 against a nasus. My biggest problem is that once he get 2-3 tank items, he is unkillable mid game and late game. Keep in mind this is low elo, i'm talking bronze and silver. for anyone trying to climb you could just play nasus, wait till mid game, and win its that simple. his damage is fine, his tankiness is not. spirit visage and iceborn = full build, un-killable, raid boss, who can take out 1/2 of your hp at 11 min

mogonk2/2/2016, 7:55:15 PM1 votes

I'm nowhere near as good OP, but I also main Nasus and in my experience this season he gets completely destroyed against anybody who knows how to play against him.

People are fooled into thinking he's still okay because if you leave him alone and let him farm he can be scary from mid game onward. But that's an illusion, games that go that way are too rare. Even in silver. Half the time I get camped and dived pre-6 and there's nothing I can do about it, there is no amount of cautious play that makes up for how weak he is early.

And another thing: against any AD champ that can rush Cleaver, the turning point where you can actually fight them (which used to be after you finished FH) just comes much, MUCH later. Cleaver > your entire mid game power spike.

And while in the old days you could just tunnel vision farm and split push top lane until you catch up if you get shut down early, with the game the way it is now there's just no time for that. Things snowball out of control before you can ever make up for being punished early.

It's bad. It's so bad.

Kyoufu2/9/2016, 4:48:06 PM1 votes

Well i need an advice. Currently i get many Udyr in game but i cant do a shit against them in late game. What could i do?

Carnarius2/9/2016, 8:32:21 PM1 votes

you can focus on splitpushing to apply pressure, or you can teamfight. nasus is stronger in teamfights, you can: a) peel for your damage dealers, you will outtank him easily b) if he goes 100% tank, just ignore him and go for enemies, he will be useless

Carnarius11/3/2015, 4:43:29 AM1 votes

ad carries aren't problem themselves, even tho they might be a bit too strong soon. the problem i addressed is, nasus is the weakest from juggernauts and one of the weakest from all top laners, which will be even more concerning when 5.22 hits the light of day. of course it doesn't mean i don't agree with tanks being hit over and over in recent patches