So what the point now to add Attack speed scaling? Now it’s just stupid and I see no reason lol Now his E is what it’s right now just weaker but if you build attack speed it would be stronger but you need a lot of attack speed so it mean you need to build on hit items but you don’t get the effects so what the point? Lol riot have no idea what they doing
has 40% AS and shows up in Garen builds once in a while.
I think you will find riot knows exactly what they are doing in this case, and there is a good reason for it.
Nah this time around you simply have no idea what they're doing.
We've wanted an AS ratio on Garen for years. Noone ever asked for on-hit effects.
Reason? Crit Garen ofcourse. And for actual Garen too:
Ya the first patch notes still had all the bad stuff attached but in game it does not have that.
You can get max 18 hits if you go all attack speed.
Extra hits dont scale with attack speed from Runes or buffs. Only Items and Levels.
Its MUCH more balanced.
I'm glad he lost his on-hit mechanic. A weak Garen means more room for Noxian Supermacy. [darius-angry]
I know and it's so sad because of all the meme builds that just died with it. Also Garen's chances of maybe becoming meta and a high tier cocaine fueled pick in champ select. :(
Because Riot hates Garen and will never buff him, just like with the Wu changes that never happened a few months back.
But Champions Riot likes like Aatrox and Akali will get to be blatant OP for years on end. The balance team philosophy is too make what they like OP and fuck ever other champion.
I'm not sure if I prefer E with or without on-hits, but to factually answer your question, what's the point of AS scaling without on-hits:
The on hits were way too much. At first I was really excited because the meme builds were showing Garen totally mowing down everything but honestly, if he were shipped with them he would have gotten nerfed into the dirt. I was also worried that on hit builds would push more tank builds into obscurity because why buy DMP/Visage/etc when you can pick up a Wit's End and Guinsoos.
I'm glad the ult and passive will be universally reliable. I'm glad we won't miss as much CS when using spin early. I'm glad Garen is changing for the better and the only sacrifice we have to make is 20 MR/AR, the damage and CC reduction aren't even being touched.
I will however, be ecstatic if we can move into the rework and have the option to stack conq. That alone will help tremendously in some match ups and will be a welcome change from taking Phase Rush/Predator in tough match ups and praying that I make it to level 11 without too much trouble.
I can agree that damaging on hits were a bit much on the spin, they did a lot of work that probably didn't need to be there.
But they should make it "count" to trigger things like Conqueror, Phage and Phantom Dancer's speed boost. It felt really good and I don't see a reason Garen should be disallowed those synergies compared to other bruisers
Old e was 10 spins Max new e is 8+1 per 20 as. both have .4 ad scaling at level 5, e starts at a lower base but at Max level, old e had 33% on single vs 25% on closest. it is a little weaker with no attackspeed built but can easily do more then current e with some investment.
Trinity force and Zeal items, mostly.
AS scaling is what ALOT of Garen mains have been asking for on E for along time. The On-Hit was over the top and way to strong honestly. Garen E actually deals more damage now than it used to EVEN if you build NO AS!
Current Garen E: 5 +1 Spin per 3 lvls (Max 10) 14/18/22/26/30 + .36/.37/.38/.39/.4 Total AD Per Spin Shreds at 4 hits (4/5 the way in)
PBE Garen E: 8 +1 Spin per 20% AS 3% AS per Lvl = 51% at lvl 18 9/15/21/27/33 +.26/.295/.33/.365/.40 Total AD Per Spin Shreds at 6 hits (3/4 the way in)
At lvl 1 Garen: No Items. 66AD (Base)
Current: [14+(.36x66)]x5spins = 188.8 total damage.
PBE: [9+(.26x66)]x8spins = 209.28 total damage.
At lvl 18 Garen: No items. 142.5AD (Base)
Current: [30+(.4x142.5)]x10spins = 870 total damage.
PBE: With no AS items he will have 8+51/20 = 10 spins (technically 10.5 spins but I don't think the .5 gives any damage.) [33+(.4x142.5)]x10spins = 900 total damage.
On Current & PBE Garen every 25AD increases E damage by 100. (at lvl 18)
On PBE Garen the first 10% AS gives 90 damage, and every 20% after that increases it by another 90. (at lvl 18). And once you start throwing in AD it increases even more. At 25AD and 10% AS = 198 E damage increase, and at 25AD and 30%AS OR a it goes up 298 damage. Then at 50AD and 30% AS its up to 417 damage.
Also 25AD is worth 875g, where as 20% AS is worth 500g. So for LESS gold you gain just as much DPS, even more when you start combing AD and AS.
Just make his on-hit effects % effective(but on vs. All targets) just like DD and Gunblade have healing restriction on AOE abiluties. Boom, problem solved. The end.
So many dumb roundabout changes when all Garen needs is in combat sustained and increased sustained dps. Easy fixes by making his W heal him for a % of the damage it reduces and activating his passive in combat for a few seconds and removing the damage penalty of E for hitting multiple targets (neither renekton or darius suffer this ridiculous penalty, nor Illaoi or any other bruiser, really).
I'd even be happy with making the Q also have a leap with a slow while shifting the silence to his ult and making the ult a fixed damage ranged nuke instead of an execute.
Garen's E made to trigger conqueror stacks, and a full spin on an enemy gives him increased attack speed as well. Voila, his awful early laning is fixed. He loses a spammable silence, making him less aggravating, but he becomes a far more competent frontliner instead of a terrible armored assassin wannabe.
For that, he got something way better tho, you can now cancel the Q animation with E, means you can dish out damage way more quickly.
super late to the party but not every attack speed item is an on-hit item. The plethora of items that have attack speed and crit do wonders for garen as they benefit both his spin damage, spin tick speed, and his Q.
Crits I assume?
So they nerfed his w and made it so you can do a niche attack speed build? should've just kept him the same i guess? They could've just added in something to dial back the onhits or something
so is crit garen only viable option for his E to do damage now? he can't reach same number of spins with just TF right?
His E can crit, so the zeal items are nice. Trinity also is a good item vs squishyer setups(which are most setups these days)
In terms of his E, not much changes other than it beeing slightly stronger at about all parts in the game while makeing zeal items and trinity more potent on him. His old E reached 10 hits with 30base damage and 40%ad, new spin reaches 10 hits just from his base AS growth with 33base and 40%ad, but can also go beyond that with aditional AS, so he will do the same damage with tanky builts but have more options for agressive builts.
I'm actually rather happy that he lost the on-hit, Garen just isn't an onhit champ and shouldn't be turned into one.
And while i love them removeing the vilain mechanic, i do hate the truedamage ult, as if tanks needed another 'fuck you'. I'd rather have that power put into either his Q ms/silence or his W instead of nerfing the W to get the truedamage...
Thank god no onhit garen lol
Still don't know why people thought on hit was a good idea, it opens new builds which probably weren't that good as they thought, but it caused many problems, like Jax and Shen basically nullifying his damage, or Rammus one shotting him with W and thornmail. It was not a good idea honestly. Even the challenger Garen main Riste thought so.
It means that passive attack speed gains now factor into his damage output on his E. You don't NEED to build Attack Speed to use that attack speed scaling.
Much like how AD abilities have AP scaling, you can get passive AP from Baron Buff and it just adds to the output damage on that ability. It's really just net perk. Nice to have and not need it.
