A plea for Revive from Dr. Karthus

BronzeKnee·3/2/2015, 8:16:15 PM·58 votes·3,528 views

Hi there,

I'm hoping this gets read and considered by someone at Riot who can put Revive back in Summoners Rift. Since I began playing LOL for fun, I never really followed the competitive scene, I just enjoyed the game, and came up with my own builds and strategies. For a long time, I used Ghost instead of Flash. Overtime, I became proficient with my non-standard builds, that I've reach Plat for two season in a row, and nearly made Diamond last season, with Revive Karthus leading my winrate.

And it's build I had the most success with, and I even began writing a guide for, was running Revive/Flash with Karthus. In short, I call the build Dr. Karthus, because I don't just press R, I press DR (D for Revive, R for Requiem).

So I am here to defend that build, explain why it works and how Revive adds meaningful to the game (for Karthus at least) and why Revive doesn't require Teleport.

Karthus is a champion that doesn't have great movement speed or any ability that allows him to rapidly move, so he requires either Ghost or Flash. Ghost is generally the better late game pick for engagements, but Flash is superior for avoiding early game ganks, and is required against certain Jungle picks and mid champs or you will badly lose your lane.

That leaves Karthus with one summoner spell left. Barrier and Heal just aren't great picks, you shouldn't need the extra survive-ability. Clairvoyance and Smite are also unnecessary for reasons that I hope are obvious. That leaves us with Clarity, Ignite and Exhaust.

Clarity should be unnecessary for Karthus. The only mana enhancing items I run are one Doran's Ring and a ROA, and with careful mana management and access to the blue buff at key points in the early game (when E isn't leveled up that high), I can use the passive from E to give me plenty of mana. That is the one of things that I feel separates a good Karthus from a mediocre one. If you have to buy a Tear, you're missing out on damage and need to learn to manage your mana better.

Exhaust. Beyond Revive it is the best pick, you can cripple opponents and use it to land Q's and do more with your E. But Revive is better, because it allows you to be much more effective in the late game, as I will explain.

Then there is Ignite. Ignite isn't bad, but hitting someone with Ignite requires micro and takes away from able to fire a Q and maneuver with Karthus. So let's explore Teleport and Revive as our final picks.

Well, since Teleport is really only good in conjunction with Revive, the impact it has on the game is often minor because of the long CD Revive has. You need to save Teleport because if you die without Teleport, then you've wasted the power of combination. And frankly, the power of the combination in an ideal situation generally doesn't make up for the fact that you'll have a really hard time avoiding early ganks and getting into position late game to do a lot of damage because you don't have a movement spell.

But Revive alone allows Karthus some key advantages. First, it means that you can fire Requiem at literally any point in the game. This is a really important advantage. It means that when you die, you can spend all your time firing Q's and laying down Walls. Often you can do huge damage doing that, more than Ignite would ever do. Then you can decide whether to Revive or not to fire Requiem. If you know it will help your teammates or finish enemies off, you can do it. However, if you know it won't do anything, you save it. That means when you respawn, you'll have Requiem and Revive is still in the bank.

You can't save Requiem if you don't have Revive. Normally, after you die in a big team fight, you fire off a couple of Q's then press R because you need to land Requiem before your passive runs out, otherwise you haven't done all you can for your team. You'd hate to be dead with Requiem in the bank and 5 enemy champs with 30 health and your team screaming at you. That often means a lot of wasted Requiems frankly. Your opponents see an early Requiem and just fall back or use spells to negate the damage. But with Revive, you can save Requiems for key moments when it will really matter. **That means less opportunity skill. ** With Revive, you actually fire Requiem a lot less, but you almost always get kills or assists with it. Rarely do I cast it and not get either.

So Revive allows Karthus to do extra damage with Q's after he dies, since he doesn't need to cast Requiem. That damage is often way more than Ignite would do, and that is why it is superior to Ignite. It also allows Karthus to cast Requiem at any point in the game, regardless of his state, which is important. Finally, it can be really strong late game for defending the Nexus.

In the end, removing Revive from Summoners Rift does nothing (since it is rarely picked) except remove variety from the game. And variety is what makes the game interesting and fun. It honestly shocks me it was removed and Clarity and Clairvoyance were left in...

Please keep Revive in Summoners Rift. Don't remove Dr. Karthus.

38 Comments

Keevalroy3/2/2015, 9:18:36 PM11 votes

Revive/TP Suicide Karthus player coming to support you. We still don't have a reason from Riot for why it was removed, and I believe if you can't explain why you're doing something, you probably shouldn't be doing it.

Riot, give Revive back to us.

pleep3/3/2015, 4:35:04 AM5 votes

Why cant u guys just accept the fact that revive is gone? im sick of ppl bitching about every single change that occurs in this game.

I have litteraly NEVER seen revived used in a serious game

UdoIkOSc4u3/2/2015, 9:26:42 PM5 votes

that build was soooooooooooooooooooo funny

Mahautsukai3/2/2015, 11:53:47 PM4 votes

I fully support your well thought out and finely explained points. As well the play this brings to the few champions who can make use of it. Sadly, this is perfect example of where I perceive Riot continually removes diverse options. Worse still, i'm sure this will fall on deaf ears. That said, good luck!

Yordle Xayah3/3/2015, 1:34:10 AM3 votes

The sad thing is that Riot doesn't really give two damns about any of this, won't read and won't do anything.

I miss Revive on Hecarim too. He was able to make a fight go 5v6. Engage fight, and once you die, revive and get back there like nothing.

LOL Spammer3/2/2015, 8:40:49 PM2 votes

I'm not even going to spend the time to read it. I agree just by reading the first paragraph. Revive is too fucking weak. I think some of the summoners need to be reworked because there is only a couple of good summoner spells and if all of them were good it would make the game a lot better.

Silents4293/2/2015, 11:30:37 PM2 votes

It had a 0.10% pickrate. It didn't even get 1%

It is self explanatory why it is gone, no one used it, People with upwords of 3000 games claim to have seen it picked maybe once or twice.

And the fact it revives a champion itself is inherently overpowered and tough to balance, you can't lower the cooldown on it, and you can't leave it the same, and if you make it do something else it isn't revive anymore.

BLU Medic3/3/2015, 8:19:37 AM2 votes

If 'no one' was using it, then why remove it? 'No one' uses Clairvoyance and only newbies use Clarity because they don't understand how to manage mana, so why not remove the wasted slot and the crutch too? They weren't hurting anyone.

As for trolls using Revive, they'd only get a couple of extra deaths anyway. When someone's already fed the enemy ADC 15 kills, an extra one isn't going to matter much.

X Frady3/3/2015, 5:22:24 AM1 votes

+1. Seriously, Rito gave no reason at all for the Revive removal.

Krys Star3/3/2015, 6:34:51 AM1 votes

Honestly? I hope they don't bring it back. It was an extremely unfair feeling, acing the enemy team and making a huge come back 50 minutes in. We were ready to push to their nexus, we are all sitting at 10-20% health and suddenly: Karthus revives and tps into our base and just completely robs us of our victory. It's a cheesy spell, and I've never felt so frustrated in a long time having a stunt like that pulled on me.

mjack333/3/2015, 7:22:05 AM1 votes

Let's examine why Revive was actually removed. It was a combination of 2 things:

  1. It had very low pick rates, so removing it does not hurt too many people. Like..... most people don't even know enough to know why it was removed. In addition, it was one of those summoner spells people would take more often to troll people than for legitimate reasons.

  2. It was extremely hard to balance ANYTHING AT ALL that could be done well with it. Karthus is a good example, but realistically any champion with high mobility or a global was really powerful late game with revive. I personally used it on some people like Twisted Fate and Rammus. It's one of those things where it's really trolly to take it...... up until the point where it's inherently unfair late game. It was a balance thing where......... there just wasn't something positive being done with the spell.

^^ Looking at this........ I'm kind of torn. I think it was a good thing to have around, but I also think that the number of positive interactions you got from it was lower, as a whole, than the number of negative ones? It's just one of those things where I personally liked it and want it back, but I know enough to know I am biased and step back a bit to say "man, some of this stuff shouldn't have happened".

ZHt0vxuAlB3/3/2015, 6:21:15 PM1 votes

I literally just logged in to comment. I totally disagree with the removal of revive. Sure it was never really meta. But it led to diversity in game play which was so mercilessly taken away. I have so many fond memories using this summoner spell. And I'd really like for it to be brought back. Hell if you remove revive take clairvoyance with it. Ive never once seen it used while ive encountered and have used revive a ridiculous amount.

                           Riot please, I implore you. Give revive back to us.
mi ramfan3/3/2015, 3:19:21 PM1 votes

If you can list 3 circumstances where Revive creates interesting gameplay that is missing without Revive, other than Revive/Teleport Karthus, then I'd be on your side.

But Revive was just kind of a useless spell for any purpose other than Revive/TP Karth. In every situation you'd rather take Flash/Heal/Barrier to not die in the first place than take Revive.

I'm all for strategic diversity but Revive isn't a strategy, it's just a noob trap.

Mimy3/3/2015, 3:32:22 PM1 votes

This is quite interesting.

I looked at your match history so I know your not joking because you actually did do this. (And it does seem to work!)

I sometimes myself pondered what summoner spells would be better for me in some cases

I go to bot lane as Tristana and every time.. flash and heal. I guess you can say im getting a little bored of doing the same thing over and over, but idk what would be better? I know for sure revive, clairvoyance, or cleanse wouldn't work too well...

Ghost I think would probably be useful, that movement speed and no unit collision could probably help me better to set up and secure kills if they try to run away. it gives 27% MS for 10 seconds..

I think it could be useful in escapes.. like.. rocket jump can get you over a wall just like flash can, and then if you have that move speed you can still easily get away

Espically from those champions who naturally have ghost basically as their W and it takes more then a rocket jump, a flash, a heal and an ult to get away from them.. Cough Blitzcrank Cough

Teleport could be useful if this new tristana buff comes into live.. if the Q cooldown could be reduced, tristana would become a turret eater even more then she is now, and teleport would just make her have soo much lane pressure...

All I know is I burn flash in stupid situations where I probably didn't need to and I mostly use my rocket jump anyways. I feel like I could be taking something to benefit me more..

What do you think? Do you think their might be something to better benefit tristana then the usual flash + heal?

Señor Karthus3/3/2015, 1:01:03 AM1 votes

Karthus is my main and I would rather have the bug in his Q after he dies fixed than seeing revive back. For those who don't know, there is a bug that sometimes, too often, he can't Q for a while after he dies and no one in Riot cares or wants to recognize it.