Mages Need an Update

Shirotaki·Feb 20, 2020·1 votes·4,535 views

Mages need a class update that emphasizes their strengths so there’s a clearer incentive to pick them over other mid laners (e.g. fighters and assassins). The focal point of a mage’s usefulness stems from 1. their ability to deal damage from afar in large areas and 2. Their ability to immobilize or disable enemy champions. If mages cannot accomplish either of these tasks easily, then there is no incentive to pick mages over fighters and assassins with better stats.

The following buffs are suggestions for buffing mages so that they feel balanced to play and stronger than fighters or assassins at either dealing area of effect damage or controlling the battlefield.

Xerath -Increased R radius Because: R is already gated by its long cooldown. It doesn’t also have to be easy to dodge.

Lux -Increased E radius Because: Lux’s abilities are all easy to dodge. This gives her slightly more reliability and pressure in lane.

Ziggs -Reduced E cooldown Because: Ziggs’s E makes him a zone-control mage. Due to its delay, E doesn’t even affect enemies unless they decide to walk over the mines. Reducing this ability’s cooldown bolsters Zigg’s zone-control aspects.

Anivia -Massively increased R leash range Because: Anivia has to both get close and consume mana consistently to activate her ultimate and control an area with her ultimate. She shouldn't also be forced to stay threatening close to enemies to do so.

Vel'Koz -Increased R range Because: Vel'Koz has sufficiently high damage and moderate cooldowns, but his ultimate could use a little more range given its nature as a channeled ability.

Karthus -Increased R damage Because: It's simply too weak, especially for its long cooldown.

Malzahar -Increased R damage Because: Unlike other channeled ultimates, Malzahar's R also suppresses a single target for its duration. The drawback? It's a single-target spell and it also suppresses Malzahar. It should at least deal damage like an ultimate, even if it's not area-of-effect.

Morgana -Increased W radius Because: Morgana does not have easy access to lane pressure because binding is blocked by minions and it's slow moving. W needs a radius increase so Morgana can more effectively pressure her opponent in other ways.

Veigar -Reduced E delay Because: The delay on Event Horizon effectively prevents it from being used reliably by even skilled Veigar players as a dash-stopper.

Zyra -Increased plant damage on hits after the 1st Because: It's too low. Compare with champions like Aphelios.

34 Comments

YennFeb 20, 20207 votes

This is a prime example of why actual conversation is impossible without having ranked restricted forums.

Assassins are king in solo queue, full stop. Mages become incredibly unreliable above Diamond, when everyone is capable of reacting to skill shots and understand trading patterns. Once you break 400 movement speed, it's incredibly hard to get hit by skill shots unless you're bad at the game or it's unexpected from the fog.

The main issue is that mage vs. assassin match ups are terrible, due to the reliance on skill shots. The Mage making one mistake is guaranteed death which will quickly snowball into being one shot under a turret, while most assassins can easily turn their own mistakes into kills just by Flashing over the mage's entire kit.

The end result is that you can never try to go for a kill or punish a mistake on an assassin unless you know their Flash is down. In the case of champions like Katarina or Zed, they're too mobile to hit with skill shots and you can't really interact with them at all.

GFREEMENFeb 20, 20206 votes

Yep

Mages just have too many disadvantages. One thing they USE to have was better wave clear but with the Assassin update Riot gave them all INSANE wave clear with the reason of "So they can Roam" instead of telling them to make a choice of Roam or CS. Assassins get both and mages have to blow their whole mana bar to push ONE wave.

YennFeb 20, 20202 votes

{quoted}

Yep

Mages just have too many disadvantages. One thing they USE to have was better wave clear but with the Assassin update Riot gave them all INSANE wave clear with the reason of "So they can Roam" instead of telling them to make a choice of Roam or CS. Assassins get both and mages have to blow their whole mana bar to push ONE wave.

That's another problem.

If I'm playing Vel'koz and my opponent roams, I can't even take the plates if the jungle is MIA. The enemy jungle can walk into the lane while I'm over extended and kill me. If it's something like Lee Sin, they can just ward hop over (or if they have mobas, side step) the crucial parts of my kit and kill me; I have to take a risk and hedge a bet that they're going to make a mistake or aren't nearby if I want to punish the roam by taking plates.

ŚhunpoFeb 23, 20201 votes

That's just certain junglers being too strong, not mages being too weak. We need more nerfs not buffs.

ŚhunpoFeb 21, 20204 votes

That's largely untrue, especially with the case of Katarina.

Once mage players actually get half-decent they become the lane bullies and completely snuff you out in laning phase, which is where roaming comes in, resulting in what we have now with Kat being a strong pick in solo queue.

Kat in solo queue is the "Lose lane, win game" snowball carry, and this only gets amplified to a whole other level once you factor in one tricks. Her entire purpose in solo queue is pretty much just to play laning phase to level 3 or level 6, get Sorc boots and spam roam/jungle skirmish. That's how she wins.

Mages actually win in lane against Katarina quite hard, it's just the fact that she is so much more effective at roaming than they are, which is why less mages should contest her roams and just focus on shoving the wave, taking 1st tier tower and/or roaming to the lane she isn't going to (preferably with your jungler). Also, please PLEASE just invest into Merc treads and at least a Null-Magic mantle, that will save you so many times if you're inexperienced against Kat. Hell, even take Null. Orb if you need to, whatever it takes to make it so that she can't kill you for free.

Mages become incredibly unreliable above Diamond

Except that's also where they're picked the most and where they perform the best. Assassins do well primarily because they're piloted by one tricks, whereas mage players generally have to specialize in playing multiple mages, as that's just how playing mages seems to work.

The Mage making one mistake is guaranteed death which will quickly snowball into being one shot under a turret...

Zed, Talon and Fizz do this. The rest are kind of bad at it (the tower diving part), at least if they don't want to go 1 for 1.

Mages can also snowball against assassins, the matchup goes both ways. Once mages snowball they command the lane through wave control and they just stonewall the laning phase, forcing the assassin to play sub-optimally if they want to go for risky plays.

Don't get me wrong, the matchup between a mage and an assassin is still volatile and unhealthy, however, it doesn't just go one way or the other, it can go either way.

YennFeb 21, 20201 votes

You're literally responding to a Diamond+ Mage main.

Once mage players actually get half-decent they become the lane bullies and completely snuff you out in laning phase, which is where roaming comes in, resulting in what we have now with Kat being a strong pick in solo queue.

They don't. Landing long range skill shots becomes more reliant on the opponent screwing up and less about aiming, and most assassins have the ability to quickly clear the wave after their first back, while also having zoning tools to give them room to clear the wave.

Mages actually win in lane against Katarina quite hard, it's just the fact that she is so much more effective at roaming than they are, which is why less mages should contest her roams and just focus on shoving the wave, taking 1st tier tower and/or roaming to the lane she isn't going to (preferably with your jungler).

You missed the point in the original post: mages cannot take plates unless the enemy jungle's location is known. If you extend that far and an Olaf or Lee Sin is nearby, you're very much dead before you can get back to your turret.

Except that's also where they're picked the most and where they perform the best. Assassins do well primarily because they're piloted by one tricks, whereas mage players generally have to specialize in playing multiple mages, as that's just how playing mages seems to work.

Okay, this is completely wrong. There's <1% change in pick rate for casters between Platinum and Diamond, and most casters have higher pick rates in Gold. The 15 most common mid picks make up 63% of all picks and contains two casters: Zoe and Cassiopeia.

Zed, Talon and Fizz do this. The rest are kind of bad at it (the tower diving part), at least if they don't want to go 1 for 1.

LeBlanc can easily force you out of the lane under the turret with W + Q + R + W or W + Q + E + W timed between turret shots. The others don't need to dive you, but they can kill you if you ever step away from the turret; not even towards the middle of the lane, but just two steps out of turret range.

You have no vision because you can't leave the turret to drop a ward. The assassin left towards bottom lane. What do you do? Do you push the wave to try to take a plate? What if the assassin is waiting in the brush and isn't actually going to bottom lane? But also what if they are going to bottom lane, dives for a double kill, and you don't punish it by pushing? They have complete control over the lane and it devolves into making guesses with no winning outcome for the mage.

Likewise, they can just bait you into clearing the wave and then freeze it if they don't think they can get a successful roam off at that minute. They're still winning, because the lane is frozen, you can't break the freeze, and you can't roam. You're literally left AFK at your turret, with no options.

Mages can also snowball against assassins, the matchup goes both ways. Once mages snowball they command the lane through wave control and they just stonewall the laning phase, forcing the assassin to play sub-optimally if they want to go for risky plays.

This is reliant on the assassin fucking up, which is the entire issue. In an equally skilled match up, the Mage does not have the potential to win unless their opponent misplays badly, as well as virtually no room for error. There's a massive handicap in these lanes.

ŚhunpoFeb 22, 20201 votes

You're literally responding to a Diamond+ Mage main.

And? Your point?

If that's the case let's actually have an educated discussion about all of this so we can understand where we're both coming from.

They don't. Landing long range skill shots becomes more reliant on the opponent screwing up and less about aiming, and most assassins have the ability to quickly clear the wave after their first back, while also having zoning tools to give them room to clear the wave.

You do realise wave control and by extension lane control is how a mage wins, right? Assassins win the raw 1v1 fights for sure, but mages can fight on their terms.

Furthermore, you say it becomes less about aiming, but I'd say it becomes more about predicting and sending your skillshots out in a way that creates a shitty situation for your opponent no matter what. Example, you send out an Ahri Q out on an angle so that it hits at least 2-3 minions while also possibly hitting your opponent. Or, better yet, you send your skillshots out in such a way that you condition your opponent into doing what you want. Kat does this with daggers, mage players can do this with skillshots, albeit their skillshots are not as much of an instant threat.

"...while also having zoning tools to give them room to clear the wave", most assassins do possess this trait, but most, if not all, need to expend their escape and/or be in melee range of the minions to actually do it. That's when you punish them.

You missed the point in the original post: mages cannot take plates unless the enemy jungle's location is known. If you extend that far and an Olaf or Lee Sin is nearby, you're very much dead before you can get back to your turret.

...same to assassins, only worse. Most assassins (besides LB) are melee range champions. If an Olaf or Lee Sin is nearby assassins are usually just as dead as mages.

Okay, this is completely wrong. There's <1% change in pick rate for casters between Platinum and Diamond, and most casters have higher pick rates in Gold. The 15 most common mid picks make up 63% of all picks and contains two casters: Zoe and Cassiopeia.

True, I probably just have some sort of bias because I see mages most of the time in the mid lane...when Yasuo isn't unbanned.

LeBlanc can easily force you out of the lane under the turret with W + Q + R + W or W + Q + E + W timed between turret shots. The others don't need to dive you, but they can kill you if you ever step away from the turret; not even towards the middle of the lane, but just two steps out of turret range.

But you said they could all dive you under tower...Are you now realising that you were generalising and that that is not applicable to all assassins? If so, great, we're finally getting somewhere.

I do agree with your stance on LB, no assassin should be ranged, safe AND oppressive, and she definitely can and does do that to you.

Sure, they can kill you once you're off tower, but you can win the long game through macro, though it's not enjoyable in the slightest. But tbh I'm down for them buffing towers further and reinforcing the playstyle so that even exception cases can't dive you cleanly.

Also, if it's getting that bad that's 100% all on you!

Likewise, they can just bait you into clearing the wave and then freeze it if they don't think they can get a successful roam off at that minute. They're still winning, because the lane is frozen, you can't break the freeze, and you can't roam. You're literally left AFK at your turret, with no options.

Except mages should always be the ones who are freezing the lane, not the assassin(s), so I do not understand where you're coming from here unless you're inexperienced facing assassins.

You say they can bait you into clearing the wave...and yet...why are higher elo players not struggling with this at all? That's the real question. Even if they do bait you into clearing you can just use that time as an opportunity to back, plant vision, roam with your jungler, the list goes on.

I really do think you're just not going about this the right way.

This is reliant on the assassin fucking up, which is the entire issue. In an equally skilled match up, the Mage does not have the potential to win unless their opponent misplays badly, as well as virtually no room for error. There's a massive handicap in these lanes.

This is just untrue, mages always have the potential win. Yes, there's not going to be much room for error, but that's exactly what happens when you pick a champion that has good range, CC, good damage and general safety+wave control. Mages are not and should never be a class you can just remain 100% safe on just by picking them, that's stupid.

If you whiff your Syndra E in the middle of the lane you deserve to die when you're facing an assassin with mass mobility like Katarina. Why did you miss that in the first place? Why did you go so aggro? Why did you overextend? Why didn't you just focus on the stage in the game where you're strongest. These are all questions you should ask yourself when you die in lane, especially as a mage.

That's not a handicap, that's the matchup dynamic, it's volatile. Look, I'm more than happy to see both classes nerfed until we get to a point where things aren't as volatile, but until then that's just how it is.

All that said, I'm not disagreeing with the OP at all, mages desperately need an update, especially to their homogenous itemisation. Assassins also need reverts at this stage tbh, champs like Kat and Talon are far too explosive in their current iterations.

ProphetOfDravenFeb 20, 20206 votes

No, mages are already the premier mid laners. The only reason you don't see artillery mages like vekroz xerath lux ziggs played much is because Zoe is just a better version of them.

ThefrostyvikingFeb 20, 20203 votes

{quoted}

No, mages are already the premier mid laners. The only reason you don't see artillery mages like vekroz xerath lux ziggs played much is because Zoe is just a better version of them.

Dude XD

Looking at both plati and diamond assassins are topping the pickrates for midlane.

...

Truth on Zoe though.

ProphetOfDravenFeb 20, 20201 votes

pickrates

[slayer-jinx-unamused]

Assassins are picked because they're fun, doesn't mean they're strong.

ThefrostyvikingFeb 20, 20204 votes

{quoted}

[slayer-jinx-unamused]

Assassins are picked because they're fun, doesn't mean they're strong.

Looking at winrates? Top 10 in diamond consist of 7 assassins.....8 if you count Ahri as one.

The banrates? 6 out of 10 are assassins.

U.gg´s tier list? 8 assassins.

You still wana say that mages are somehow better than this in soloq? xD

Assassins get played the most, have the best winrates overall and the highest banrates and you wana call them better than the mages? Aight man whatever floats your boat.

"Edit"

Hells after checking i realized there are only 10 mages(counting ahri) with 50%+ winrate in diamond....yikes.

ProphetOfDravenFeb 20, 20202 votes

Never said they were better in soloque. Soloque is completely different from coordinated play ( what actually matters ). Assassins are highly reliant on getting a free lead, which is infinitely harder when you're coordinated than it is in soloque. Mages are safer and more reliable. It's a lot easier to carry games on an Assassin than a mage.

LCS https://lol.gamepedia.com/Special:RunQuery/TournamentStatistics?TS%5Bpreload%5D=TournamentByChampionRole&TS%5Brole%5D=Mid&TS%5Btournament%5D=LCS/2020%20Season/Spring%20Season&pfRunQueryFormName=TournamentStatistics

LEC https://lol.gamepedia.com/Special:RunQuery/TournamentStatistics?TS%5Bpreload%5D=TournamentByChampionRole&TS%5Brole%5D=Mid&TS%5Btournament%5D=LEC/2020%20Season/Spring%20Season&pfRunQueryFormName=TournamentStatistics

ThefrostyvikingFeb 20, 20202 votes

{quoted}

Never said they were better in soloque. Soloque is completely different from coordinated play ( what actually matters ). Assassins are highly reliant on getting a free lead, which is infinitely harder when you're coordinated than it is in soloque. Mages are safer and more reliable. It's a lot easier to carry games on an Assassin than a mage.

LCS https://lol.gamepedia.com/Special:RunQuery/TournamentStatistics?TS%5Bpreload%5D=TournamentByChampionRole&TS%5Brole%5D=Mid&TS%5Btournament%5D=LCS/2020%20Season/Spring%20Season&pfRunQueryFormName=TournamentStatistics

LEC https://lol.gamepedia.com/Special:RunQuery/TournamentStatistics?TS%5Bpreload%5D=TournamentByChampionRole&TS%5Brole%5D=Mid&TS%5Btournament%5D=LEC/2020%20Season/Spring%20Season&pfRunQueryFormName=TournamentStatistics

I honestly believe you are absolutely correct when it comes to mages being better than assassins in the coordinated environment of proplay and this in my mind is a truth with ample backing to prove it´s validity.

However is this actually relevant at all outside proplay? This i think is a important question to which the answer is no, there the truth is that assassins are overpowered instead.

It´s not until masters that they finally drop to more reasonable stats overall but even there they have a strong presence.

So is it wrong to say that assassins are actually very strong? I think it´s absolutely correct because they would not dominate all the way up until diamond otherwise while maintaining a solid chunk of the masters playerbase if they werent strong.

Bad champions will have bad winrates and bad winrates do not fly up there.

Similarly i do also believe that the innate flaws of the assassin class will keep all but the most overloaded ones from ever being viable in proplay even if they are tremendously strong outside that.

A great deal of belief and speculation on my part i am aware but i do think this view of mine has a fairly good base in reality given that the only "pure" assassins i recall seeing proplay in recent times are Akali, Qiyana, Ekko and....did Diana get played? I havent watched for a while now.

vgamedudeFeb 21, 20201 votes

{quoted}

No, mages are already the premier mid laners. The only reason you don't see artillery mages like vekroz xerath lux ziggs played much is because Zoe is just a better version of them.

Artillery mages are just garbage in general. You do nothing but poke, have no sustained damage, have to have another core to do all the work after you poke or in the case of Zoe find a pick, have to have follow up and protection etc. Only think they're good in pro around the right comp.

It is beyond difficult to "carry" as an artillery mage in soloq

2Charmnot2CharmFeb 21, 20202 votes

Except Zoe gets blocked by minions/monsters(don't get me started on baron-up minions too)/tanks, and her wave clear is trash tier compared to all of those champs.

You don't see those champs because of assassins, or they're boring to play, not cause she is a "better version."

vgamedudeFeb 21, 20201 votes

{quoted}

Except Zoe gets blocked by minions/monsters(don't get me started on baron-up minions too)/tanks, and her wave clear is trash tier compared to all of those champs.

You don't see those champs because of assassins, or they're boring to play, not cause she is a "better version."

Yeah man. Zoe's damn wave clear after all the riot nerfs to her is so abysmal. It's sad too she was one of my favorite mid laners but man it feels awful playing her now and csing and wave clearing.

HateDaddyFeb 20, 20206 votes

Uhm lol

Mages are the best class in the game right now. They have the ability to be as disruptive as tanks and put out the same damage as ADCs. Bad players have problems optimizing their range because they’re bad players, not because mages are weak. They have the best itemization in the game while they also use runes better than any other class. Miss me with this garbage, mages do not need buffs.

ŚhunpoFeb 22, 20201 votes

^ This

shapesdontflyFeb 20, 20206 votes

Ima try and explain my thoughts on each of your points.

Xerath

I kinda do agree it needs a lower cooldown, possibly a little less damage to justify an even lower cooldown, but i'm pretty sure a good xerath can make it hard to dodge

Lux

Her e is one of the easiest abilities to land in lane, she doesn't have reliability problems if you have aim and are maxing e first(which is normal right).

Ziggs

I kinda actually agree here but maybe reduce e damage, that way he has more area to control but less punishment for people who dont heed him.

Anivia

Agree somewhat here as well, but not massively, you shouldnt be able to drop it in baron pit from be hind and still walk all the way around to the front with it still casting, just as an example.

Vel'koz

The R length is its only limiting factor in laning phase, unless you rushed mercs before 6, there wouldnt be a way to avoid it due to him being able to aim it perpendicularly.

Karthus

Its a global guarantee of champion damage map wide that works with runes (DH and predator). The true value is insane but it requires map awareness( or game state awareness).

Malzahar

His Ulti strength is that it enables his other abilities ON TOP of already dealing damage. malz being suppressed doesnt matter when his q is on cd, and coronavirus and crabs are eating away at your victim at 100% effectiveness.

Morgana

You pressure enemies with q to force them into wave then you drop w on them AND the wave, the other way to pressure lane opponents is already there, you just aren't utilizing it.

Veigar

Its not supposed to be used as a dasher stopper. Its denial so you can better get your abilities off or coordinate with teammates, this ability is nearly an ultimate in value when displacements are a factor on your side.

Zyra

Except aphelios has one turret, zyra has multiple plants. Her synergy with items is insane.

Although i don't think mages are the best class in the game, i do think that they have some fundamental problems not related to damage. They certainly aren't the worst as evident by some of their damage and scaling potentials. A lot of these points don't give a universal circumstance as justification for why these ideas have merit. As toxic and weak as it sounds, most of the situations you describe can be resolved by just playing better.

ZyniyaFeb 20, 20204 votes

Mages don't need to be buffed they legit kill faster then actual assassins do. They need a nerf if anything or we need better MR items.

shapesdontflyFeb 20, 20201 votes

There should be a tank item that counters large SINGLE instances of damage, kinda like how adaptive helm counters small similar successive instances. Maybe an item that did damage gating like old poppy passive. Ive been a mage main since i started playing, and i gotta say, tanks have been in the dirt since the 2017 midseason that they updated them, ruining tank items.

ThefrostyvikingFeb 20, 20202 votes

{quoted}

There should be a tank item that counters large SINGLE instances of damage, kinda like how adaptive helm counters small similar successive instances. Maybe an item that did damage gating like old poppy passive. Ive been a mage main since i started playing, and i gotta say, tanks have been in the dirt since the 2017 midseason that they updated them, ruining tank items.

Dude what are you smoking?

Tanks were insanely overpowered following their rework in the s7 update, and despite some nerfs they got insanely overpowered again when aftershock came in.

It was not until a number of nerfs came through and conqueror with it´s 20% true damage was added that tanks fell flat on their faces.

Now though?

Multiple tanks saw themselves be instantly revived when conqueror was removed with the forerunner being Ornn followed by the likes of Shen, Maokai and Nunu but also a number of support tanks who know essentially dominate the support role.

And Riot themselves stated that they are looking to buff the worse ones like Sejuani if i am not mistaken.

RavenMagusFeb 21, 20201 votes

It's already rather hard for a mage to kill someone building MR. An assassin, particularly an AD one, can auto a few extra times if their ability combo misses a kill. If a mage misses a kill, they have to wait for their cooldowns to come back up, which takes much longer than a few autos.

In early and midgame, it's often even enough for just the health from an armor item to allow a tank to survive a mage's combo (which generally allows them to initiate on and assassinate the mage). Mages don't have the power to kill tanks very easily until very late in the game when their full builds are coming online.

There's a reason full AP comps are almost unheard of, whereas full AD comps are often poor but still workable.

alwaysEZ4ENCEFeb 20, 20204 votes

posts like these are why the boards are never taken seriously

Ahri BakaFeb 20, 20203 votes

Lux -Increased E radius Because: Lux’s abilities are all easy to dodge. This gives her slightly more reliability and pressure in lane

They should just revert the nerf.

Although I agree about doing changes for mages to make them better but I don't think they should be buffed directly , they need some items change and an actual keystone and that's it.

RavenMagusFeb 21, 20202 votes

While I agree that mages are in a poor state overall as compared to assassins and ~~fighters~~ other assassins, I think you have to be very careful when buffing mages as they're not too far off from being good and any little thing can push them over the top and make them too oppressive.

Lux - certainly doesn't need an easier to hit E. I think she's mostly fine as is because she has good range so is fairly safe. If anything, give her a stronger shield (self-only) to make her more resilient against assassins. Or maybe just +5 movespeed.

Karthus - if you want to buff Karthus, it probably shouldn't be his hard to answer ultimate that already makes him a high scaling god.

Morgana - you have a weird reasoning for this. You don't really pick Morgana for high lane pressure. You pick Morgana because she farms very safely from range, with her W clearing casters at level 5 and her black shield + root making her difficult to gank or engage on. She provides so much utility for her team it's probably a good thing she's not as oppressive in lane or able to carry as hard by herself.

Veigar - veigar E used to be instant and it was pretty cancerous back then. Veigar as a champion is overall stronger than he was back then too, so that delay honestly needs to stay. It's such a good teamfight tool already anyways.

I can agree with your proposed changes to Anivia (just to be clear, longer tether range with the same initial cast range), Ziggs and Velkoz. I feel ambivalent about the Zyra and Xerath changes. (Zyra already does a lot of damage honestly, but I miss the old circle Q compared to this weird square)

Also you forgot Annie, who loses most matchups as everyone outdamages her pre-6 and most other mages outrange and outpush her. She needs some extra waveclear power :(

ŚhunpoFeb 21, 20202 votes

Mages need an update...but their itemisation needs some a major update as well. item 3157 just needs to go, plain and simple. item 3285 needs to be reverted. item 3802 needs to go as well. item 3135 needs a hard nerf. item 3146 has gotta go too.

Then Riot can actually make some more magic pen. items, buff the actual mage champions and make their itemisation so much more healthy, clean and enjoyable. Maybe they could also bring back Spell Vamp?

RagnaveilFeb 21, 20201 votes

If they add more pen options, then they need to raise the base mr and mr scaling on melees.

ŚhunpoFeb 22, 20201 votes

Well yeah, that's just a given, they fucked with MR once Runes Reforged hit and now every champ is extremely squishy until they purchase MR.

RagnaveilFeb 22, 20202 votes

Even if they do. Mages still beat the shit out of tanks even though tanks should counter them (not by damage, but surviving them)

BlackEtherianFeb 22, 20201 votes

{quoted}

Mages need an update...but their itemisation needs some a major update as well. just needs to go, plain and simple. needs to be reverted. needs to go as well. needs a hard nerf. has gotta go too.

Then Riot can actually make some more magic pen. items, buff the actual mage champions and make their itemisation so much more healthy, clean and enjoyable. Maybe they could also bring back Spell Vamp?

Removing gunblade would further destroy Akali, and make Katarina unplayable seeing as she doesnt use mana so none of the other first item mage items would help

CRIMSONFKRFeb 20, 20201 votes

I'm gonna put a hard no on this mages are one the strongest right now and been sitting at the top for a while.

Also their items is the best in the game with MP running rampant shredding tanks,and bruisers alike with little effort.

TseisonFeb 21, 20201 votes

I do agree that Zyra needs some changes , also her plants need more health because they’re dying way too fast to everything and AP damage for her skills need to be a tad higher too...

Beacon AcademyFeb 22, 20201 votes

{quoted}

Malzahar -Increased R damage Because: Unlike other channeled ultimates, Malzahar's R also suppresses a single target for its duration. The drawback? It's a single-target spell and it also suppresses Malzahar. It should at least deal damage like an ultimate, even if it's not area-of-effect.

Mages getting an update is why Malzahar is a bastardized version of his old self.

The only change he needs is a complete revert to 6.8.