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Supports: Damned if They Do, Damned if They Don't

Epic Mad Man·11/17/2015, 10:56:51 AM·11 votes·1,738 views

Since going main supp, I have experienced various players who say various things about what a supp should do. They all share one common theme: Blame the support. In many cases where a team member is losing their lane and they are called on it, and asked to be more passive so they don't feed, their instant response is to say the support is 0/X. This also occurs when your adc is everything but useful, be it their first time adc, trolling, or an idiot who pings for attack and doesn't follow up with the set up. They do this despite the support having half or more to do with the team kills (assists). An example would be you are 0/4/15 and your team kills are totaled to 26 in 30 minutes of the game. You have 0 kills therefore you cant play and are a loser in your teams eyes.

On the other hand you are a failure and a loser for getting kills. When you know your adc is too passive/noob/troll, and wont get the kill right in front of them, I tend to grab it so it would be worth it if they or myself died after they pinged to go in and then they have second thoughts. This is also when your jungle is too busy being scared or trying, and failing, to steal enemy jungles farm but is close by. You go ahead and take the kill that is trying to get away and get spammed about how bad you are for getting a kill that both the adc and the jungle wouldn't get. Then in cases of them just getting away outright and my cc ends up killing them. If I score the kill everyone is pissed that the support has kills and says that they need to learn how to supp despite none of them were even able to score the kill or dmg the enemy. If I let them get away then they are pissed at that as well.

Thus the title of this thread. If I score a kill because the rest of the team CANT as in not close enough, ran the other direction, died, are too stupid and focused the tank, not paying attention in general, the support is the noob for taking a kill. If I don't take the kill, I'm a noob for not having kills, not taking the kill despite them pinging that it is their kill and they end up getting killed saying, "hurr durr wtf why did you back off?" or some other general form of stupidity.

Anyways, what are your thoughts. I generally try not to take kills unless I absolutely have to, getting away, it is too close to call if my ally or enemy is going to get the kill first, or total accident. What are your thoughts?

38 Comments

musicaldoodle11/17/2015, 11:04:40 AM9 votes

well obviously kills on adc> support, but when it comes down to it, the enemy is dead who cares

Spoofghoul11/17/2015, 11:26:45 AM6 votes

Kills = skills is more of a bronze lvl issue i think but i see it in gold way too much too. For me i dont give a crap who gets it as long as we can use it to get an objective.

Just one of those things you said... Laners going full ham all the time and pushing like crazy then dieing to ganks or missplays is pretty much the reason why i no longer play jungle or support if i can help it.

At least i can always make sure i don't lose my lane even in the very worst matchups, that is ofcoarse in ''normal'' circumstances.

Its funny tho lately ive been mirroring playstyle with my teammembers. That means they go full ham and feed all the tiem with no warding or teamplay at all i do exactly the same with exactly the same plays its funny how these guys go nuts over the exact things they do themselfes.

On the otherhand teammates play with teamwork tryeing their best to wrok together to make a win happen then thats what i do too.

I just give people the mirror treatment, douchebag trolls and feeders can get what they give.

Original Quitter11/17/2015, 5:43:39 PM6 votes

Right now is a GREAT time to be a support main, at least, a certian type of support.

The new item item 2301 combined with the new masteries make playing Full Ap mage supports in bot lane a serious thing that I do not think most people realize yet.

I have been playing VelKoz, Anivia, Brand, Annie, Oriana, karma and even Twisted Fate as supports. Quite frankly with the amount of mana regen now available to you they are devastating.

Not only do I regularly have within 1.5k gold of our mid lane I am CONSISTENTLY out damaging my mid lane and top lane allies in damage output.

Especially as Vel Koz, the damage output is insane.

I have been running 12-18-0 and using builds like: item 1334 item 2301 item 3151 item 3285 item 3089 item 3050

Being able to run full offensive runes and masteries, not being a focus due to being the "support" having enough CC to peel for your carry and having enough damage output to annihilate the enemy teams carries are awesome.

Yeah you lack pen and can not do the same kind of damage a true mage can with void staff but when you take champs like brand and velkoz into account, you really don't suffer that much unless you are caught out 1v1 by a hard hitting tank.

So why did I post this?

Because you can basically tell the ADC and your team to fuck off about taking kills, cs, and what ever else when you get to the end game screen and see you delt more damage from support than anyone else in the game. Ok, not really.... but it changes the game, in a world were 70% of all teams are full ad and no one really builds MR anymore, you, as a hard hitting AP support become very strong and getting kills no longer hurts your team to the same degree. It lets you actualy have an impact when you are in your promos and get last pick every single game.

Besides, there is always Braum!

TheHypeGoku11/17/2015, 3:26:30 PM4 votes

I don't have the same problem in ranked. But when I play blind pick ( I don't try that hard in normals lol ), I tend to be with silver ADC's who don't follow up. A lot of the times I'll have lowered both the enemy ADC and enemy support to like 25% health by level 3 and that's really the most I can do. I main support, got plat partly due to playing support (as well as top/jungle) so I understand it is frustrating. But looking at your match history, your deaths number is very high for a support player. Like.. 5 deaths is usually pushing it but you're averaging almost double digit deaths. Are you not peeling in fights and staying positioned well so that you don't die/get caught out? You dying = less peel for your back line = partly your fault for any losses in team fights.

Also, I dislike the people that say supports can't do anything. There are plenty of support mains in higher elo that don't have the same problem. You don't really play support that often so you don't have any right to act like you know what we're capable of.

3TWarrior11/17/2015, 1:31:08 PM3 votes

then there's the fact that team composition seems to now be:

  • top: fighter, tank or both
  • mid: support(mage) or assassin
  • jungler: almost exclusively tank
  • bottom lane: marksman and tank

zilean for instance now has so much wave clear but so little useful abilities for other people that he should go mid morgana is a death sentence against blitzcrank because you can't move in to attack the helpless tank unless she risks her own safety to give you her shield and engage

soraka...if there's a gank, kiss the tower goodbye, same with sona

haven't tried nunu support since las patch but it's more than likely not effective once the opponent is fed enough to deal with base numbers harass(though fun trick, support nunu can run under tower and ult without attracting aggro until after the ult finishes, but not a good idea until certain points)

off-meta supports are getting punished heavily by split pushers

actual support tanks have no damage(taric and alistar)

i'm getting where people are coming from when they say it doesn't feel like the same league

Kitten of Evil11/17/2015, 8:43:07 PM3 votes

As a support/mage main, I almost find it more frustrating when you spoon-feed your ADC a few kills, they think they're a god, they go ham and die. Repeatedly.

LegendaryLemur11/17/2015, 3:42:53 PM3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Epic Mad Man,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AXVwUy4A,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-11-17T10:56:51.184+0000)

their instant response is to say the support is 0/X

I suppose i'm being a bit judgmental, but these are probably the same players who, when forced into the role, play lux 'support' and start doran's ring

Athenes Lulu11/17/2015, 5:57:42 PM2 votes

What elo is this? Only bad shitters will judge supports solely on numbers.

How to tell if someone's a good support, is just look at his team, and the numerical stats on your teammates is what matters more.

The only time any support should worry about numbers is how many assists:deaths they have. Even so, these numbers still don't mean anything. Don't let those shitters put you down, you know well enough that supporting is not about numbers, but your teammates'.

Also, if it's an early kill or two that the suppprt took, it's actually advantageous because that means you now have more gold to stay alive, and that your teammates will end up taking the subsequent kills anyways unless they are just that bad even with enough damage. If any teammate is whining about that happening, they probably suck.

I have mained support long enough to not give a flying fuck about numbers, and neither should you. Just as long your teammates are fed/alive that's all you have to worry about.

(Even though try not to die, you don't want free gold for enemies.)

Krigjer11/17/2015, 6:24:01 PM2 votes

I was playing support Karma, and my adc Graves had recalled. I was last hitting minions, not even pushing, just one hit right before they died, just so I could get the gold.

My adc called me bad and said I had no idea how to play support because 'supports aren't supposed to kill minions, ever! You don't need the gold!' He wasn't even lane; it's not like I was taking farm from him.

53872273_DEL11/17/2015, 6:50:57 PM2 votes

Ugghhhhhhh all the time man.. Every game I support as Braum "Braum wtf man why did you take my kill noob?" EVEN FUCKING WHEN I HAVE A CHARGE ON RELIC! "Braum stop hitting minions, you mess up my last hit fucking retard!" No matter how horrible the adc is, when 3 more bitches come bot so its a 5v2 and the "carry" is gonna be blown the fuck up, jump in and shield and take 1,000dmg in 3 seconds. BUT, the adc stays to try to save tower and ends up dying. she tells me "WOW BRAUM YOU SUCK %%%%S!"

I feel like SOME attack damage "carries" and other teammates are narcissists because they blame everyone else but themself for their mistakes. They lie saying we can win games when their kat is 20/5/1 and enemy draven is 15/0/9. And they love themself because they think they are hot shit.

BRONZE ELO sucks and I stopped playing ranked.

If you want to be a beefy support, you shall take cs when adc isn't in lane!

Samus7211/17/2015, 7:01:49 PM2 votes

Prit-tee much. You heal / shield them, they win, you're a hero. You heal / shield them, they lose, you're about to be a flame target.

I don't like to toot my own horn, but I'm pretty good at support characters. But there are times when healing someone until you've burned your mana dry and it doesn't make any difference. The player who pushes in faster than you can keep up with them and, as a result, dies because they're constantly out of range of your heals, will always blame you for not healing them. I can still clearly remember one day in school where I was about to reach out and hit the volleyball that was headed my way when some punk named Steve suddenly dived in front of me. He knocked the ball out of bounds and awarded the other team a point. He turned to me and yelled "You suck!" Oh, really? I was about to hit the ball myself. If I had hit it out of bound, I would be the screw up. Instead, Mr. Master-of-All-Things got in front of me.

I envision that every time someone online complains that they didn't get enough support. Things like ability cooldowns, and casting time, range, and other things don't register with folks like that. But that's because they're too ignorant to take responsibility for their own actions and see that they got themselves defeated.

But you can't tell them that. They wouldn't believe it if you carved it on their chest and / or made them repeat it hundreds of times. But at least people would see that scar and know not to play with them any more.

Pity.

Iskierka11/17/2015, 7:54:18 PM2 votes

Im also a support main and to be honest I only care about others. It s only important if I in my opinion I played good or bad. Other players are often like"I got a kill wp" or "You died fcking noob". Im more like did I play the skills correctly? Couldnt we get a double kill out of this? Was maybe my death a necessary sacrifice? To be honest my adcs are only flaming me if they are dyining often rather than when im actually doing badly. (And to be honest they often dont see my mistakes, they just feel I m bad because they can t be playing bad)

Pooqy11/17/2015, 9:09:36 PM2 votes

As a support main, I've gotten some really good advice by playing with a plat 1 Supp/ADC main and seen my Win% increase.

His advice:

  • always play aggressive, and harass as much as possible to deny farm.

Works wonders in my elo of Silver IV, and if you die more than 2 times pre 10 mins look at your positioning and warding.

My advice:

  • Be self critical

side note - last hitting cs when ADC isn't there (not pushing) is called "freezing lane". always do it.

1st Movement11/17/2015, 10:01:11 PM2 votes

your mind set is too low Elo If your adc is bad you gotta jump ship Roam with the jungle or gank other lanes

1st Movement11/18/2015, 2:11:49 AM2 votes

happened to me when i was silver 5 but then i went 0-3-22 everyone on my team honored me except THE ADC leo and naut best for this elo

ZT Xperimentor11/18/2015, 6:09:00 PM2 votes

I agree, and I'd also like to point out to anyone who downvotes the thread; it's a team based game for objectives. Kills don't matter as much as taking the enemy nexus, yes it's easier with them out of the way; but it's not necessary. Likewise, how do you expect someone behind to be of any help? Supports are going to need gold eventually to be more effective. Alright enough rambling against random people who disagree with you; thumbs up.

Zethuriah Fox11/18/2015, 8:46:30 PM2 votes

Why do you think team builder support Q takes up to 15 mins to get one? Who the hell wants to support? I second main tahm kench. I 100% agree. Worse thing in the world is getting paired with a adc that has no balls, or the opposite a feeder. I hated every second of getting tahm to rank 5 andd zyra to 4 (i gave up support is bullshit). I can't count the gameswhere I would literally spit a person out in front of my AD carry with only one hit point left so the ad Carry can kill him to watch the AD carry get too scared to approach an attack for a kill and watch the person just flash away. I started to just kill them myself, because of Tham with a full build can carry a game by himself. even in games where I fed the AD carry, he gets like 17 kills, and does nothing with it. doesn't push a tower doesn't get dragon doesn't do anything with it. meanwhile here I sit with a stupid ass Sight stone, and a couple of crystalline bracelet because I wasn't even allowed to get minion kills. feeling useless as fuc, and watching an AD carry i fed basically afk.

I really wish the number of minions in bot lane were double a normal lane so that Support can farm minions - that role is such b*******. I bless you for being a main on it.

NiamhNyx11/17/2015, 1:11:12 PM2 votes

There are so many game i go 0/7/26+ and get called a feeding noob. Support life, taking all the blame to make the team win.

GhastlyGhoulMan11/17/2015, 3:24:00 PM2 votes

The funny thing is too, now getting kills on Bounties grants global gold. So it shouldn't be a problem.

Dominick Destine11/17/2015, 3:30:30 PM2 votes

Actually as a secondary support player (Main jungle, secondary support) I am rarely blamed.

The jungler is almost always blamed , is my observation.

Korillo11/17/2015, 3:48:40 PM2 votes

You do you and let them do them

VvVVvV11/17/2015, 5:03:26 PM2 votes

I just posted a similar post earlier today close to this. I got raged at by adc because i got a double kill. 1st kill was because the minion killed the adc and i was the last to touch him. The 2nd kill was on the support after my Kog Maw adc died. He was pinging me to back off but he was not close enough to get to the suport to kill her with his passive. So i killed the support....when his passive popped i was between him and the other supports body so i know he was not in range to get the kill. Then later on in the same game again raged by the adc and the mid because i got another double kill in a 5 v 5 team fight because i had my ult going and it bounced and got kills.....had i not got the kill the adc would of died. So i guess he would of rather died and got kill with passive rather than get a assist and live.

If you main support, one thing you will learn is that not everyone is supportable.

RisenDarkKnight11/17/2015, 5:46:54 PM2 votes

IDK I haven't had anyone complain that I haven't gotten kills as support in probably over a year. Most people only get mad at supports if you end up with too many kills, and most players generally don't mind that either. Maybe I've just ended up with nicer people? IDK I enjoy being a support main usually (though this patch kinda sucks, despite the support income buffs).