The reaction to Cho'Gath, and why I think it's unfair.

CaptainSeto·7/19/2017, 11:30:43 PM·4 votes·1,167 views

So recently, people have been saying nothing but bad things about Cho. Be it complaints about him being unkillable, to his ult being BS. I don't think he deserves the complaints, even more so in a game where we have the likes of Vayne, a champion that kills tanks thanks to her constant true damage output, Draven, who deals lots of damage very quickly, and Veigar, an infinite damage stacking champion with an insane ult.

"His ult is too OP, and should be nerfed." No it shouldn't. They didn't change his ult this patch, so why it's suddenly such a big issue despite it's damage being the way it is since the start of League as a game is beyond me. It's actually in a pretty decent spot right now, with it's infinite stacking helping him be a huge tank for comps who are mostly squishy but still having the downside of making him have an even bigger hitbox. Now that he doesn't lose stacks upon death, rolling him in ARAM isn't a death sentence, while also allowing him to not be completely useless if he falls behind and doesn't get all his stacks during laning phase. The true damage is there mostly because it's a semi long cooldown ability that he's heavily reliant upon getting the execute off for stacks, and having the damage be resisted because of a few extra points of damage resistance would be rage inducing. Sure it may seem BS, but again, this is a game with the likes of Vayne, a champion who can stun you and then get all her true damage off on you before you can move.

"He has too much CC." He's got a slow from his new E, and the most telegraphed knock up in the game for a Q. If you want to count it, he's got a silence, but it's not going to do much unless he's sure you are locked down and close. His Q is insanely easy to dodge for anyone with even an ounce of mobility, and players without mobility normally are a tank or have some form of CC. But still, it's a giant circle on the ground with a decent delay, so it's not like you aren't seeing it coming. Sure his E slow might be annoying, but it's not going to be winning any awards for "Best and most Reliable CC" when you consider that it both decays, and can easily be built against with boots if it's really bogging down your game. He's not Thresh, Blitz, Lulu, Nunu, or other strong CC champs. Most of his CC is purely to help him keep up with his prey because he's a big, slow, obvious threat.

"He's unkillable." No, he's not. Sure he's going to be harder to kill than most tanks, and even maybe dragon because of all his tank stats, but he's not unkillable. He's just not a champ able to be one shot by your ADC like you want him to be. He's a raid boss. Through and through. If you are going to fight him, don't go at him like a Mundo, or a Sion. Go at him like a Baron, or a elder dragon. Make sure that your team is ready, with your cooldowns off and with as much health as you can. When it comes down to it, he's still the slow, large hitbox threat he's always been. If he's got his team with him, fight smart. Take out the high damage ADC, maybe the assassin, the soraka if she's there, then take out the big guy. It's not going to be easy, but it shouldn't be. Your Draven shouldn't walk up to Cho and make mincemeat out of him in 2 seconds flat. It should actually take effort. Otherwise the whole point of Cho'gath goes down the drain. The best course of attack with him, is CC him to make sure he moves as little as possible while your damage dealers dance around him and whittle away. If they get towards that threshold of danger, have them back up and play a little more careful. Ultimately, Cho's got his counters, and the big ones are ones that keep him still, because if he can't close that gap to the low health ADC, he's dead.

Edit: After reading some feedback, what if the %health damage was removed from his E, and maybe a 5% decrease to the current slow for each rank of it.

17 Comments

UnboundHades7/19/2017, 11:44:11 PM2 votes

Chogath item 3193 summoner 4 is the only problem for me seeing how around 30~ min he can just flash gargoyle and ult a squishy to instantly pop them

ModKnightsKemplar7/20/2017, 5:37:47 PM2 votes

Even with your edits, he's gonna need bigger nerfs. I mean, look at his win rates. Dude has a 55.17% win rate in jungle at the time of this writing in plat+ game (op.gg). Now, I agree that win rate doesn't tell the whole story, but 55% has never been the sign of a healthy champ. Not at any point in this game's history.

Just like any other champion, they could nerf him to balance by nerfing ANY part of his kit; keeping him balanced and healthy requires careful attention to which part is nerfed, though.

The fact remains that he is too tanky to have that much damage and that much cc. He's not the king of any of those categories; it's the combination that makes him OP. The conversation should revolve around the smart ways to nerf him; I don't think there's a strong argument for "Cho is balanced" when his stats look like that.

On that note, I don't think your proposed nerfs in the edits are enough, and I think the % health decrease may hit the wrong part of his kit. That's the only part that can help damage tankier champs on a reasonable cooldown, so I think that should stay. Maybe nerfs to its base damage would help, but I wouldn't take away the thing that lets him fight tanks. Without that, he'll be a glorified assassin again (only useful for killing squishies and pretty helpless against other tanks and bruisers).

Asayake 5150glow7/19/2017, 11:54:16 PM1 votes

You didn't mention my personal problem, which I don't know is shared, but might be, and is probably clumped into the first group.

Cho's damage is too reliable Now, you might be thinking, "Cho? Reliable? Hah, have you seen that Q?" And I would have to agree. But it's not the Q that bothers me. It's the fact that Cho gets to slap you with 200 damage E's, as a full tank, and then ult you for another 1k or so.

Cho is Not a juggernaut. Sure he's slow, but he's got tons of ranged utility. It's really annoying to have to treat him like one. I can outplay Illaoi and Darius, I have a shot at outstatchecking Shyvana, and Shyvana doesn't burst as reliably (true damage). Same with the other juggernauts, like Olaf and Morde.

But Cho? It's really hard to kill him, since he is tank level tanky, while the other juggernauts are only juggernaut level tanky. Yet he can kill you just as easily.

Tohob7/19/2017, 11:39:36 PM1 votes

everything that's strong is overpowered and needs to be fixed, unless it's something that i already use

AmetDeCrypt7/20/2017, 12:32:01 AM1 votes

tl:dr make his ult magic damage like I've been saying and we're golden.

Rockm Sockm7/20/2017, 12:43:32 AM1 votes

His Ult+Gargoyle and his e can't remain.

You could keep his E and restore the ability to reduce his stacks. IDC either way

ZT Xperimentor7/20/2017, 4:55:00 PM1 votes

Most of the people complaining never tried counter-building. Seen it first hand multiple times in my own games and in other peoples'. Want to kill a tank? There's a thing called penetration (magic and armor), along with health damaging effects. Either pick a champion who can do one of these, or build said items. Want to survive a tank? Pretty much anything with magic resist.

JustMonika137/20/2017, 12:27:59 AM1 votes

As long as they hit his Gargoyle ult I'll be happy

Darkdemon6537/19/2017, 11:41:50 PM1 votes

The problem isn't that he has all the things he has. The problem is the degree to which he has them.