Virtual In-Game Bank at Base?

OmgItsGenoma··2 votes·1,054 views

Would be interesting if it is possible for team members to deposit gold at a virtual bank in-game, then the member who requested can make a withdrawal. This is for helping out other teammates, especially supports, when their adc is extremely fed and has gold to spare after they've purchased a big item. It can change the course of the game if, say, the enemy team is going for tanky builds, and the strongest ally member needs some gold to counter them for carrying.


EDIT (8/18/15): Responding to some of my detractors, and rightly so, that it could be abused. But such gold transfers could be regulated or capped by a standard percentage to each player, like cooldown reductions (40%), based off of an expected average player income per game.

For the sake of example, let's say the expected average player income per game is 1000 gold. The max cap for a player to request is 30% of 1000 gold. So that player can have a maximum of 300 transferred gold for that game session.

Some claim that the team will just feed the ADC with gold. But a team doing this is setting itself up for risking its teammates to feed for the enemy team, since they will be behind in build items. If that is the case, the enemy team may receive more gold from kills, and will financially out-gold the ADC, or the whole team for that matter, that was picked for receiving a boost in gold. That is, atleast one teammate may be economically behind, and have difficulty holding the lane. So no, merely transferring gold to the ADC is never a good/efficient strategy for either team.

Such transfers should best be used to strategically plan situational counters against an enemy team or enemy champ during laning phase, and avoid having an OP enemy team by mid-late game.


EDIT (8/20/15): Lately I've been thinking much about the problem of snowballing for certain champions, again from the responses I've received. This bank concept needs an extra mechanic to prohibit players from exploiting it. This might be a possible solution.

For the player receiving gold from an ally (must be a mutual decision to receive and send money from both the player and ally), the recipient will have a penalty in their gold accumulation per second. If the recipient does well with the gold used, the player may return the gold to the helping ally to reduce the penalty.

For example, imagine the player has capped his gold requested percentage (assuming 30% -- see Edit (8/18/15) above), then that player has a penalty of 30%, or something along these lines, from their gold accumulation per second. That is, the player would have to send back 300 gold to the helping ally in order to reduce/eliminate their penalty to 0%.

This avoids, or lessens, any player who may have a favorable power spike and snowball because of their advantage and gold. It's now designed for a player in need of help to do well in the particular context of the game as needed.

The incentive for doing well is towards reducing their penalty by giving the gold back to the sender, who won't (shouldn't) receive such a penalty. If the player fails to play well, then that player will have a difficulty contributing for the team, as well as the ally who helped because the ally may be economically behind to buy better items.

Thanks for reading.

24 Comments

Nameless Voice3 votes

What this would effectively mean is that the support would have to give up all of their income to the ADC.

No fun would be had by anyone.

OmgItsGenoma1 votes

I mean, I could be wrong. Take Leona. Leona is a tanky support. If she's behind, for whatever reason, she's utterly useless. Then yes, there is a benefit to having a virtual bank. But of course, it won't be smart to exploit the bank, only when it is necessary.

I see your point. If the ADC has income then ideally the ADC will carry through the game. But so does the enemy team have the bank. So it's not a one-sided question. It may have a social impact in the game.

I don't agree that it wouldn't be fun, though. Maybe there is a cap as to how much you should deposit or a percentage of how much the teammate has been helped? If regulated it might be enjoyable. Look at how cool down reductions are capped at 40%.

It could add an extra dimension to the game. Say the cap for financial help is 25% for each player, based on, for example, expected average income per game. At early laning phase a player may want to send 10% of an ally teammate, and mid-late game the rest. Or just stop at the player's 10%.

Ferrous Oxide3 votes

I don't like this at all it would make snowballing even worse. If a single player gets super far ahead then at least there I'd only one player ahead. But with this bank if a player gets super Fed and makes it to full build he can just give all his gold to the rest of the team and now the whole team is way ahead

OmgItsGenoma1 votes

Yes, I agree with you. I'm sure there is a snowballing issue. There are many factors leading a player to be ahead, though. But if there is a cap, or limit, as to how much a player may receive in-game then the problem might be resolved. Depends on your team composition too. If you have a weak team composition then a bank wouldn't be much help.

Take into consideration that each team have their own bank. So it's not a one-sided issue.

Blazing Tenshi3 votes

Poppy "Give me all your gold, I want to 1v5 now".

OmgItsGenoma1 votes

Could totally imagine this lmao.

Blastumz2 votes

if only pretty sure its a core principle of the game thought to try to work around gold income on a personal level.

OmgItsGenoma1 votes

Totally agree with that. Though it may be useful as an enable/disable switch for custom games/maps.

Valderis Vandala1 votes

This will just be abused, the whole team will just pull all their resources into one person to get them supper fed (like say a jungler), who will then go kill crazy on the enemy team unless their team does the same thing to counter. Or the first thing they do will be to solo dragon, cash in whole team gold again and you then have a very big lead. Terrible for the progress of the game as a whole.

Not to mention what this will do to the mentality of the people playing the game, it already has a ego problem, this will multiply it.

Just a terrible idea overall.

OmgItsGenoma1 votes

Yes and No. Yes, you're right that it could be abused. And no, maybe it's not so terrible -- I mentioned in a reply gold transfers could be capped for a particular player, that is, regulated, much like cooldown reductions, based off of expected average player income per game. So there is no serious problem towards the possibility in exploiting these transfers to a single player.

Just to note: I don't sincerely believe or optimistic for this to be used in tournaments or whatnot. But I think it's an interesting concept that can add some variety to the game if designed properly. In general, no one sincerely knows how it would turn out because it has never been done to a MOBA game. I think you're being too hasty to dismiss it.

Valderis Vandala1 votes

I think its a piss poor concept and its results are completely predictable.

At best its nothing more then needless complications to an already complicated game. If you want needlessly complicated go play DOTA2, I'm sure they'll love this idea.

OmgItsGenoma1 votes

Define "predictable." Considering there are a variety of champs with different attributes and skills, a player's skill maintaining creep score, mana consumption, etc., some champs will benefit from this in special situations. If it were predictable then it would nullify a bank concept. Please, don't come in here bashing a non-tested concept if you complain the next time Master Yi rekts your team. That's predictable. In situations like that a strategic counter to Yi would be helpful.

I'm not asking for a free-for-all-giveaway. There ought to be limitations.

Valderis Vandala2 votes

Don't play word games with me boy, you know damn well what predictable means.

And don't assume I complain about champions or getting rekt, I don't, I leave that for the little kids that like to whine and don't understand how the game works.

We all know about the power spikes in this game and who gets the most out of gaining gold, allowing gold to be exchanged between players is only going to hyper charge these things and ruin peoples enjoyment of the game. Its just another system on top of so many that needs to be learned and exploited in order to win. This will not improve the game, you are blind if you can't see that.

OmgItsGenoma1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Valderis Vandala,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AREkM2qz,comment-id=00030000000000000000,timestamp=2015-08-19T21:30:01.646+0000)

Don't play word games with me boy, you know damn well what predictable means.

Chill with the defensive talk, also referring to your previous posts. If you don't agree with it say it kindly.

And don't assume I complain about champions or getting rekt, I don't, I leave that for the little kids that like to whine and don't understand how the game works.

I'm glad you don't complain. I just said if you did...

We all know about the power spikes in this game and who gets the most out of gaining gold, allowing gold to be exchanged between players is only going to hyper charge these things and ruin peoples enjoyment of the game. Its just another system on top of so many that needs to be learned and exploited in order to win.

It's true, I agree with you on this point: there are power spikes; Sion gets an advantage at lvl 3, Diana and Leona at lvl 6, and so on. But isn't the bank supposed to deal with it? Good or ill. It's a rule, and like every rule, it's meant to regulate balancing problems which are very specific to its context. Power spikes vary from champion to champion. Considering the game is principally social, I think it just depends on the team.

This will not improve the game, you are blind if you can't see that.

I see it as a tool. If players are willing to get held back in earned gold that's their problem. If a team is blindly going to do this, expect the team risked getting fed for being behind.

You sincerely believe it will get exploited - perhaps mostly by beginners. I don't think so. Good players are smart enough to use it when needed to make efficient strategies. To plan how to exploit this is not really playing the game. All you have to say in-game is something like "boost 100 for mr."

Really, it should be experimented. If it works then add it as a mode. If not, forget it. But this is a first for MOBA games. Apparently I'm not too conservative about it.

Valderis Vandala2 votes

It's got nothing to do with being defensive, its just calling you out on your bullshit.

Yo Genomicron pal, my boy, if you're jacking off all night at least close the door and turn the volume down, people want to sleep you know? I'm not saying you do this but you know, just in case you do, know what I'm saying? Does this have any relevance to the topic at hand? No? Man, then why would I even bring it up? What's the point?

"Good players are smart enough to use it when needed to make efficient strategies. To plan how to exploit this is not really playing the game."

Please explain to me how using a tool/option/mechanic in a game is not part of playing the game, because if you can't then you just contradicted yourself. Also, isn't this what pro's do for a living? Finding every little advantage over the enemy to win.

OmgItsGenoma1 votes

It may not be part of a player's game if the player decides not to commit to this tool because of some regulation prohibiting exploitation. Perhaps there may be some kind of penalty - something like a penalty in gold accumulation per second for the player receiving the gold.

So say a player maxed out their cap of 30% for gold received in that game session, then that player has a penalty of 30% of their default gold accumulation per second, or something along those lines.

I've always thought of the bank concept in terms of situational contexts. Such a penalty could lessen the benefits of the snowballing problem as everyone seems to be afraid of - it's up to the player to make wise decisions as to how to use the gold received.

If you do well with it you can reduce your penalty by giving the gold back to the ally who helped you.

Valderis Vandala1 votes

You're just over complicating this shit.

Besides, if 30% was the limit somebody could borrow while getting a penalty, then they will just borrow 30% - 1 gold and oops no more penalty, or something along those lines. Can you really not see this kind of stuff before you write it down?

No matter how you slice it, it will be abused and absorbed into a new meta with all kinds of new and unintentional power spikes, doesn't matter how many penalties you add to it, if it turns out to be better in some way then it will be abused and people that don't will be left in the dust.

Now, how much enjoyment will people actually get out of this do you think? You think its fun to be forced to donate because; "dude its the new meta, X has to donate to X or we lose" ?

OmgItsGenoma1 votes

Well, the 30% was just an example. If you don't like it, it's fine by me. But I appreciate your input.

Valderis Vandala2 votes

Thank you, and I'm sorry if I come across as an asshole, there are just a lot of problems with this idea.

For example, lets restrict this bank idea even further, lets say that the bank cannot be used for the first 20 minutes of the game, this completely removes any early abusable power spikes. You might think, ok great now its a tool for people who are behind, instead of surrendering at 20 we can have a reevaluation of our situation, redistribute some wealth and get back into the game. Right?

Well no, you see even as restricted as this, what is going to happen is that the enemy carry who has been running roughshod throe the game can now distribute any excess gold to his own party members. In a way it ruins the gold ceiling that would otherwise balance a bit of power in favor of the losing team.

This bank idea isn't just a means of predictable but unforeseen power spikes, its also a tool that will always favor a team that is already winning, because the team that is ahead will have more gold to distribute. It achieves the opposite of other systems that are already in the game to balance power in favor of the losing team.

OmgItsGenoma1 votes

Cool. You make a lot of sense. I still don't know if the bank idea will ever work, but definitely, talking to other players, providing a penalty to the rate of gold accumulation per second might not be a good penalty anyway (players can more or less accumulate gold by last hitting creeps). From just this input, is a good direction if Riot ever decides to experiment with the idea.

The bank lock until 20 minutes is a good counter-example, because I was thinking of something like that, but with xp levels. So far I don't have any other ideas for it.

The idea came up when I was fighting Cho'Gath as Diana in mid lane. Knowing that Cho'Gath has great sustain, Diana fails greatly against a good Cho'Gath player no matter how much AP she has, and she seriously needed perhaps a void staff or abyssal scepter for a good counter. I got the power spike at lvl 6 because of her ult and going for a luden's echo core item and almost killed Cho, but Cho came back with a magic resist build and basically carried the game because of his feed skill. Diana couldn't even touch him after that - he was way ahead just by living.

The jacking-off example I thought was hilarious btw.

Valderis Vandala1 votes

It can "work" as an optional thing, like a special mode or option when making a custom game, but Riot doesn't seem to care about that sort of thing, so good luck trying to get any kind of options added to custom games. I've been beating that dead horse myself.

Automatic gold accumulation is another thing in this game that helps people who have less skill or luck, so that they get at least something even if everything goes wrong. Penalizing this is just going to fuck with people who aren't as good at the game. It just not much of a penalty for people who are good and can get a lot of gold from kills and CS.

I think adjusting your own build to fit the situation your in will help you far more then trying to invent new things into the game just to get around your personal problems with certain match-ups. Because that Cho'Gath could also make use of the bank as well and you'd still have the same problem, maybe even worse.

Arcade Andrew1 votes

I love this idea the way it is Id love it then somebody can get fed and spend all that useless gold on me and we win :D

Only Play Darius1 votes

No. Then people will lose lane due to lack of skill and cry about their fed ADC not contributing money to them.

No one likes a communist.

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