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Make Lee Sin's entire kit deal physical damage.

Truthteller·3/7/2015, 7:33:19 PM·49 votes·3,617 views

*With the only exception of the percent health missing portion (8%) which will be counted as magic damage. *That way he has to buy raw AD to keep up with his damage output, and if anything he'd actually be countered by armor in the mid game. A strong mobile jungler like him needs to have some kind of trade-off if he decides to build nothing but tank items and still gets to do a shit ton of damage enough to oneshot a carry or support. Right now, it makes zero sense for someone as strong as him to deal absurd amounts of magic damage for an aoe ability with AD scaling (Tempest). I think this should be the least Riot can do, if not we're probably not going to see any more Lee Sin nerfs for the next 100 years.

For some of you that are saying this change is going to gimp Lee and/or are unconvinced, let's take a look at and . They both have abilities that scales with bonus AD and all of them deals physical damage including the passives. Do you recall any of them for having a shitty early, mid or late game? Me neither. Now imagine if one of their primary aoes (W for riven and W for Talon) did magic damage instead of physical, do you SEE the problem yet?

This change should have taken effect on him a long time ago. I'd rather play against a glass cannon Lee that oneshots me by building AD and armor-pen in 1 second than a bruiser or full-tank Lee that can do practically the same thing under 3 seconds mid game.

I know Riot isn't going to listen to me but I want to find out who actually agrees other than those obnoxious Lee mains that trash talk everyone for a bad game. I'm really not asking a lot here and I firmly believe that he should be CORRECTLY rewarded for landing a narrow skill shot.

EDIT: I sincerely apologize if I made this unclear to some of you but there will be no changes to his shield.

INB4 downvotes from Lee mains

47 Comments

Jefftiffy3/7/2015, 7:47:43 PM9 votes

His entire kit does physical minus tempest. In all honesty I never understood why it does magic damage to begin with. It has pretty good scaling for an AoE that is usually follow up. (don't look at me and scream that I want Lee nerfed, look at my WR with him, its 70%). I never understood how you itemized against that. 1:1 magic damage scaling off of AD. IDK convert it to physical then add some base values to the activation of cripple (not much, but like 15/30/45/60/75) with 0 scaling. It would take some pressure off of needing both armor and MR to fully defend yourself from Lee.

Trash MammaI3/7/2015, 7:37:37 PM4 votes

I barely even play lee and I don't get all the crying and b*tching about him. He's not OP. He's either full damage and squishy or Full tank and weak. All this crying about him is annoying as hell

01101000011010013/8/2015, 9:42:54 AM2 votes

Lee is pretty balanced right now as far as the game goes. He's strong in the early/midish game but weak lategame

Bears Dont Care3/8/2015, 4:48:44 PM2 votes

Lee Sin isn't OP, he is weak if he goes tanky, and squishy if he goes full AD. Just like everyone else!

Oh wait...that sounds retarded.

Risurin3/8/2015, 12:17:53 AM1 votes

this change is a nerf Lee Sin Q damage at all stages of the game, instead of just his late. Right now, his E damage doesnt do that much later on for lack of penetration, and his Q damage is mostly only from the % part since again, not much penetration (not a lot of LW Lee Sin around).

Tempest (E) : 10 sec CD

MAGIC DAMAGE: 60 / 95 / 130 / 165 / 200 (+ 100% bonus AD)

no, thats not an absurd amount of damage.

Hard Penetrator3/8/2015, 12:46:20 AM1 votes

Years ago Olaf Q was dealing magic dmg (because you know, ABILITY POWER). When they changed it into physical, it was overall buff for olaf because it scaled with his armor pen from Ragnarok and runes/masteries.

Damn, Olaf had 30 flat armor pen.

Point is its a very, very rare change and just handful of champions got it.

53872273_DEL3/8/2015, 1:45:43 AM1 votes

Take out lee's lifesteal and spell vamp.. I mean seriously a lee sin doing spell vamp?? WTF RITO? Lee is practically a version of a fed riven.. if not worse The items that make lee stronger than riven and talon is armor penetration.. riven and talon buy that as well..So you are pretty much screwed until you have 5000 health and 300 armor to kinda stop the North Korea nukes to your face.. take the missing health out and nerf the ulti

Tis a nice day3/8/2015, 5:01:47 AM1 votes

But then he just becomes Zed with CC.

LatetotheRace3/8/2015, 6:49:36 AM1 votes

The idea of this is to keep his damage under control, not to make "AP LEE OP" a thing. It's similar to Jarvan's flag, or Rek'sai's burrowed Q. If it all did damage his already extremely high damage output would be put in an even higher tier, then he would get nerfed. I doubt that's what all you lee players want.

Dengeden3/8/2015, 8:50:40 AM1 votes

Sigh, both of them are 0-0 in LCS. Riven has an AD scaling shield, Lee's only form of defensive scaling is that spell vamp (and his unreliable LS). If you gave Riven or Talon magic damage on their abilities their early to mid game would be better, yes. Their late game however would suck even more than it already does. LW and other armor pen items would be less effective. Especially considering that most defensive items on squishies give MR.

BLU Medic3/8/2015, 9:41:37 AM1 votes

Or we can make half of his kit magic damage, so Lee Sins have to choose to build AP or AD, like Kog'Maw.

hi im otter3/8/2015, 12:45:55 PM1 votes

Lee is quite weak in ranked play right now. His main problem is that he has too many tools for avoiding counterplay and executing plays of his own.

If anything, every part of his kit should deal physical damage for the sake of clarity. It's somewhat confusing that an AD scaling skill hits for massive magical damage, and not to mention continues to overload his kit.

Acadiaum3/8/2015, 2:07:12 PM1 votes

If talons rake damage was magic I'd be so happy :D

warpenguin5553/8/2015, 3:18:54 PM1 votes

His E is the only thing that deals magic damage...

Fefnil3/8/2015, 3:58:39 PM1 votes

Ok, but you must notice that his E doesn't scale with armor penetration, which makes up for a big part of his damage.

BlackSunNocturne3/8/2015, 7:14:38 PM1 votes

Agreed.

THE GREAT SLOTH3/8/2015, 8:23:51 PM1 votes

http://boards.pbe.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/champions-gameplay-feedback/jHhmhlGe-lets-talk-about-lee-sin-retune

It's still a good change for lee, all of it makes total sense from a balance standpoint. I still wish this went through.

Raja Chachki3/7/2015, 7:38:07 PM1 votes

this buffs him....his W scales with AP I believe so giving it AD scaling would make his shield HUGE. Let's just nerf numbers and his R base damage and scalings.

dunder kill3/7/2015, 8:06:15 PM1 votes

if he decides to build nothing but tank items and still gets to do a shit ton of damage

considering he scales off nothing but bonus AD, he gets absolutely no damage increases by building tank

Sir Fuzzi3/7/2015, 11:11:46 PM1 votes

Lee Sin's motif: fighting game. everything is combo, based on a lot of forethought and timing. each skill is one half of a skill

the solution: actually adhere to the notion of 'half' a skill. Q doesn't need to be a poke if it leads in to a chunk + gap closer, maybe? shield doesn't need to proc secondary ability if it's used on himself or non-champions, maybe?

in order to nerf Lee Sin and not turn him into a pile of boring goop, one needs to find out what makes Lee Sin unique at the core and how to define that more accurately, rather than making it evident through overly powerful play