Champions such as Velkoz & Xerath should NEVER be "supports"
Can you like PLEASE fix mages so they can be viable midlane against assassins so they can stop going "support" PLEASE riot, this is ridiculous.
271 Comments
as mages main I agree , please kick 
and some others out of mid lane so we can play our champions
Honestly all of those oppressive mages in bot lane including Karthus are just memes when they go mid lane , don't ask me why , watching Streamers like Tyler who complain about them and tried to play them mid and ended up embarrassing themselves will explain everything.
Sadly they won't. They don't care about utility playstyles. The burst-fiesta has been meta for more than 1 year now.
Moreover, a Master support main (and former Challenger), recently showed how you need such disgusting AP damage dealers/spammers, in order to carry in low elos as a support. Sad :C
That's what happens when you nerf enchanters, their main runes and their items to oblivion, then nerf adcs, their main protection target.
Add 
and 
to the list.
Get this garbage out of bot lane.
I don't mind people playing mages bot lane, but for gods sake don't call it support when you're doing that.
It's like michael phelps an olympic gold medal winner, you take him and put him in the special ed swimming olympics and then say those handicapped people are equal to michael phelps.
It's stupid to see people play mages in bot lane, then through the chat say ignorant things like "gee, weird to see a support carry huh?" "I'm just a support" "Support, lol" you're not a support you're just in a different lane.
Pyke being made as a "support" just re-enforces that mentality that if i play something in bot lane it's a support.
Agreed, get it out.
K suggest to riot how to change Velkoz in such way he becomes a midlaner
Obvious answer is to just nerf assassins into the ground. That'll pull mages out of the bot lane.
As a Vel'Koz and Xerath player i can say that the main reason why these mages have shifted to the support lane is because mid lane is being dominated by hyper mobile champions, which Xerath and Vel'Koz are countered by.
are every siege mage main's nightmare. Which is why alot of mages have been exiled to the bot lane, where they have a chance to play against a more fair champion.
Xerath and Vel'Koz are two of the most fair, well designed and balanced champions. The issue is not in them. It's in the fact that the game has become so incredibly mage unfriendly, with every second champion having built-in mobility and huge burst. So my suggestion would be to look at the mobility and damage of the more popular mid laners instead of trying to gut the healthy and balanced champions.
There's nothing to fix...
These mages are immobile and will always be extremely weak to assassins.
Their CC and poke will always be useful in the support role even if they are viable mid.
Runes reforged is what has made them more frustrating to play against.
Also, shouldn't supports have an option to solo carry a game? If you're playing with a braindead adc, at least you can have an impact on the game if you get fed.
Actually mages in botlane are fine. We already had poke like sona or lulu viable but they ware nerfed so much it's barely playable. Sona has her base stats overnerfed. Lulu lost a lot of her strength too via her or item nerfs The problem is that real supports are overnerfed not that mages are OP in botlane. Let's get to fixing supports and tanks rather then changing mages shall we!
I believe there is an important and interesting discussion to be had, but what really annoys me is this dogmatic mindset what supports are supposed to do and not to do. For example:
Supports shouldn´t deal dmg Supports shouldn't be independent Supports shouldn´t be able to carry Supports shouldn´t have gold Support should only cc peel, heal and shield and provide vision
even though there is only a single item that helps them with that.
And there are no reasons given to why these things have to stay this way when most of these things were byproducts from way back when, when players tried to distribute the limited sources of gold-income in the most efficient way. So one role had to become the whipping boy for the rest of the team, sacrificing exp, gold, and everything that wasn´t absolutely necessary with the goal in mind "to be as effective as possible" in relation to the enemy support while being completely useless in relation to everyone else.
And to everyone´s surprise, this role proofed to be extremely unsatisfying for most players and was for a long time the most unpopular role, only played by players that either didn´t mind playing a completely different game or were simply forced to play it. You know you have struck gold when you have to force people into a role no one wants to play.
So why are people so hell-bent on sticking to a formula that has already proven to be horrible in the past?
Is it the 10 traditional support mains, who like being the 5th wheel? Is it adc mains sick and tired having to deal with so much burst/dmg so early in the game? Or is it because it has always been this way?
In my opinion, being a discount midlaner is an improvement to being a traditional support.
As long as we get out of there with them, I'm all for it.
2 things:
- are all great right now in mid (or at least widely played), and they screw over traditional long-range mages like
. I think 
isn't too bad against them, because her Q is hard CC, but she's too easy to play around in general (i.e Lux has never been popular in high elo) - Traditional enchanter supports like
are not that great, or at least don't bring enough healing/shields to the table to offset the insane damage of champs like . And there isn't a lot that peels will do to offset champs like Brand or Vel'koz's insane poke.
Edit: I spent like 15 minutes writing this so I think I'll make this into a separate thread altogether.
I'm a Brand support main, but if I ever get my secondary (mid) I would never pick Brand. Here are the reasons why (I'd love to play him mid rather than support btw) ~
- Has to be too close to harass, and it's very difficult to land all three spells twice in a row just to evenly trade a lane opponent who just has to dodge one of those six spells to win a trade. If I go mid and don't miss a single spell, then yeah I'll win the lane. But if I'm off just a little then I'll probably lose, whereas my opponent just has to land maybe one skillshot to get the same results.
- Very gankable but not with the range that xerath, velk, and lux has to play safe.
- You either use spells on minions to go even in lane dominance or you harass, whereas someone like TF just has to Q the wave, maybe throw a red card. Brands are always out cs'd mid (BRAND HAS THE SECOND LOWEST CS NUMBERS OF ALL MIDS, despite not being a roam/ assassin champion like LB who has the actual lowest) or have the wave pushing towards them (unless W+E is used on the wave a ton, which causes mana problems and Brand is one of the most gankable mages).
- Brand's best rune is DH because of how easy it is to proc on him. In mid you'll proc it half as much (or worse depending on match up) whereas in bot a Brand will get the most DH stacks of anyone in the game.
- AP doesn't scale well on Brand, putting a lot of his power into his passive which doesn't need massive item spikes to do damage, and is amplified a ton with the easy to buy magic pen items and rylia's + liandry's. Going mid for extra farm to get those extra cs numbers (43/44 for all mid champions in terms of cs though) isn't worth the extra menial ap item.
- The only reason Brand has a 50% WR mid is because of his amazing teamfight potential. He probably has the best damage potential of any champ for grouped team fights. That being said, his teamfight potential isn't greatly increased by going mid rather than support. In fact, it's probably better to have a mid for the enemy team to focus on so that a Brand can actually get his combos off in a teamfight, or if he's focused hard, then the mid won't be focused then can do the massive damage instead.
My proposed changes includes nerfs to his damage, buffs to his CS and better AP scaling:
- Brand's passive burns minions for an increased amount to assist in CS.
- His autoattack burns minions (only minions) for an extra small amount of damage as well.
- His base damages are all decreased at every level but has much better AP scaling (making him weaker at every minute of the game until around 2 magic items, in which he becomes stronger than previously). <- this alone would lower support Brand by 3% winrate, but alone would trash all of Brand's early game making him the weakest around, so the other proposed changes are needed to assist in lane harass/ CS.
- He has slightly longer range on E.
- Similar to Ryze, it would be great to give Brand some mobility like an MS boost or shield on landing an ability, or even just a small base MS increase. Brand is the only champ that requires two spells to land a small stun to avoid ganks, but if either of those abilities are ever used to help with CS then you're screwed. So it's either always have wards up everywhere, try to go even in CS, or lose CS but be prepared for a gank. I would love to have a simple gold card to throw out or a long range single spell stun (Xerath) to help against ganks.
- Ignoring only #4 but keeping the only 3, perhaps reworking his kit interaction to make him more viable to play midlane would be an option. This is a more difficult change though and not just a small number push-around.
Well, that's all from me! This will probably just get downvoted because it has Brand in it but I think these are some really viable solutions.
They're only supporting because of how broken 
is, so you're getting same amount of gold, as your adc.
So basically you want Riot to remove something that's been part of the game since forever because you personally don't like it
I been a "support" main since season 2, we are a playerbase like everyone else and we enjoy doing damage even when we aren't meta.
I don't think it has anything to do with viability middle lane and everything to do with the people playing those champions enjoying them but not wanting to trust the average player to play support instead of them. There are a lot of super bad support players out there and instead of forcing them to play their worst team slot, you choose that slot for yourself to improve your win rate. That's how the logic goes. I have succeeded multiple times with Varus, Kog'maw, and Jhin support as examples but they are marksmen. It's honestly not much different from me getting matched with some super greedy support player except now I'm expected to not kill too many minions.
Would you rather protect and spoil the support who's supposed to be the one doing the protecting or would you rather be the support yourself and protect your ally? People are using burst damage champions to threaten the enemy to get them off their lane partner. You should be asking yourself why is threatening more effective a deterrent to killing your lane partner sometimes than actual preservation attempts. Simply put, just as you cannot trust supports to protect others, you also cannot always trust a bottom lane player to use the protections given to them. You cannot always trust them to punish the enemy mage when they overextend. So players pick a champion that can do some punishing themselves just in case that is necessary. Many support players, if not most will only ever take blue income item. Why? Because it's the only income item that results in damage dealt to the enemy champs when triggering its income gain.
If there were fewer new players playing bottom/support then you wouldn't see so much distrust among the support players.