How to Bring back mage supports

Binxy Prime·10/22/2015, 2:28:50 AM·5 votes·1,469 views

The Problems mage supports have

  • They generally have low mobility AND are squishy
  • They generally have less reliable CC compared to tank supports
  • They bring less sustain than melee supports
  • Their items are less cost efficient than melee supports
  • In lane they are more vulnerable to ganks (this is a side effect of being squishy and immobile

How this actually effects the game

I am going to use Nami as an example from here on out, vs a melee support, going to use Braum primarily in this example, but Alistar, Nautalus, etc all have similar advantages over Nami / Sona / Janna / Lulu etc.

Braum has much more reliable and consistent CC, as well as comparable damage and much much more mobility, and more survivability. In return if Nami isn't hit at all in a teamfight she will provide better peel, sustain, and damage. Nami will also likely lose lane due to the pressure provided by junglers especially if both teams have high damage mobility junglers like Elise, Lee Sin and the like.

Part of the reason laning phase is so difficult is because ranged supports simply cannot poke melee supports hard enough to have their range become an advantage, and even if you do manage to whittle down an ADC before they have lifesteal, it not only puts you in a lot of danger from jungle and teleport ganks, but you also open yourself up to being stunned by the melee support and be killed in the 2v2. Because of the way runes and masteries are, and the amount of pots bot lane starts with, melee supports can simply sustain through all harass until they hit 6 and then they will generally win most all ins.

This problem compounds in the mid game, lets assume for the sake of argument both sides went even in lane, then during the mid game, the enemy Braum has much more deep warding opportunities because he has higher tankiness, higher mobility, and more reliable self peel to escape a bad warding situation. A Nami player is just going to get chunked to fountain or killed much more often than a Braum player in the mid game.

Potential solutions

Increase mage support poke damage so that melee supports cannot just ignore it. I suggest doubling the charges for the gold generation items but reducing the gold it gives to 3 per hit from 5. This would add 30 or so magic damage p/20 seconds which would help a lot to poke out immobile champs, it would slightly raise its max gold potential as well.

To improve the mid game issues we could add a little more utility the Frostfang T3 active. it could have a 0 second interupt to help vs channeled spells or could offer them a self cleanse(for slows only, otherwise mid laners will build it) or movespeed bonus to ward more safely.

Other solutions would be giving mage supports high base health but reducing their resistances, this would force them to rune for armor to go bot lane but if they do would increase their EHP a lot to make them more durable for early game skirmishes. This would also gives incentive to buy resistance utility items with low health that provide synergy with their base stats and their kits without making them fodder for the enemy jungle and mid laners.

What are some other community ideas?

I'm just one guy who enjoys playing mage supports, I find success on them but I would really like them to be more forgiving mid game and I would kill to see a few of them in competitive play. What are some of your solutions for adding some more type diversity to the support position?

23 Comments

Bonipherus10/22/2015, 2:45:52 AM2 votes

Part of this problem probably also has something to do with how utterly bad item 3303 is compared to other two support items. The damage is nothing as that pitiful amount of on hit damage (which does not scale at all other than 5 damage per upgrade) will only happen a maximum of 3 times and the gold gain will fall off hard due to not being able to poke as effectively as you can in the first few levels of laning phase. This results in a ton of lost gold income after laning phase. Also if you actually decide to upgrade (you honestly shouldn't) you still end up with the worst active of all the support items.

Chuck Charles10/22/2015, 8:04:24 AM1 votes

I think mage supports are fine right now and perfectly viable. you cannot ignore a Nami who pokes you in lane. her damage is pretty solid if played right. not to mention her and janna both have really good heal. certain mages do just fine. while others not so much. Looking at YOU sona. But Nami is in a good place as is Janna. they just are more niche picks because they are better at peeling than they are engaging. A nami wave will hardly ever hit anyone if you try to use it to engage and janna flashing into engage with ult is generally a bad idea.

people prefer engage in solo Q and I think thats why you see the tanky supports more. its not because they are tanky, its because they can be used in multiple ways and are diverse in their style, whereas the mages are vastly better at peeling for their carries.

Annie is probably the lone exception to this as she is nothing but a lane bully and stun bot later in the game unless you can get some kills/assist and snowball into some AP. and even then, she will never be solo lane annie unless she somehow got incredibly fed.

the reason people dont like playing mages either is because they require you to actually position well rather than blindly poke the enemy. Where a thresh can go and hook and then be punished slightly by getting chunked for his cooldown being used...if you get CCd as a mage you are essentially a goner. Get hooked as Sona? better flash or you are a dead sona. Same with nami, janna, etc. You can just blindly poke. you have to know when to trade. and people are too lazy to learn when and how to trade.

TLDR = the meta does certainly favor diverse supports who can "do it all", but mages still have their places as great peelers. I mean look at Lulu, she is so good of a support people bring her into solo lanes. (granted she is VIABLE there because of ratios, but you get my point)

Athenes Lulu10/22/2015, 8:15:42 AM1 votes

More like viable, yet outclassed. Maybe except Janna, because we all know disengage > engage, and that engage is what's fresh botlane.

Gotta thank Annie for the cause of item 3092 nerfs, which gave everyone nearly no more reason to build it, and instantly outclassed an entire class of supports mainly because of that. Even though it is actually preseason 4 which allowed tank supports to build tanky items, therefore making non tank supports obsolete.

Don't forget that melee supports chunk down enemies as hard SOME poke supports do, but with much more reliable CC. To be honest, it's either we nerf the tank supports' damages and tone down a little on the base defense so they have to think twice before stepping at the front lines, or buff the poke supports' base damages.

Unless they seriously don't mind forcing Nami and Sona out of botlane to the point where they are no longer supports, like my own fate, the entire class of poke supports would remain outclassed for eternity unless changes are made.

Penguin Eclipse10/23/2015, 1:36:51 AM1 votes

Nami is really no weaker than she has ever been. And only a year & 1/2 or so ago she was widely considered one of the strongest supports in the game at all elos. What changed? The meta changed. I don't think making her poke stronger to get her back into the meta is the answer. In fact I don't think she really needs any buffs. Her time will come again. Until then she will be situational. Which is fine, being a generalist she can very easily become good in all matchups which is a problem.

Sona/Lulu really both need reworks.

Janna is overall in a good spot. While it is true about 2 years ago she was considered trash, she is now considered quite strong and excels well in this meta.

ZephyrDrake10/23/2015, 9:58:54 PM1 votes

one of the main things i would say that is keeping mage supports from being as good/useful/whatever than tank ones is that their itemization is terrible. Most AP support items are just awful and anyone who thinks that the item 3303 is good is just deluding themselves. The first item is good the rest are just bad. The only good AP mage support item we have is item 3050 and that's more of a general support item than one specifically targeted to mage supports

Janna and Morgana are the only mage support that do well anymore and it's just because they can counter the engage that tank supports bring to some extend. The rest of the mage supports are just you hoping to god that the opposing tank support has no idea what they are doing.

Binxy Prime10/24/2015, 2:58:50 AM1 votes

Hey guys I'm really glad that we are sharing this great feedback, based on the posts here maybe Mage supports aren't in as bad of a spot as I thought they were, even though I am still pretty convinced they are inferior, but I have recieved some nice feedback that makes me think about the advantages they do have.

I hope Riot has thought of a lot of these same things and has a plan for pre-season.

Environmentalist10/22/2015, 2:30:27 AM1 votes

I apologize, because I did not read it (lazy). Though, I wouldn't say mage supports are gone. I mean, I main Lulu support, I've been getting into Nami, and Blitz? If you'd consider him mage. Everyone says tank support is the meta, but a lot of the time if the enemy team chooses a tank support I'll counter them with a mage.

Binxy Prime11/14/2015, 6:09:18 AM1 votes

The changes that were made recently have definitely helped, Im excited to play mage supports now