What kind of support should bard become?

Jrud·3/17/2015, 12:42:00 AM·14 votes·2,384 views

"Bard is a great roamer" - this is what you will read on the pro's list of pretty much every bard guide you will find right now. And I have to agree after having played several games with him. He roams, he grabs his chimes, then he roams harder. Awesome. But what does roaming really do for your team in the long run? Well, a few things...

  1. It grants vision through warding, and champion sight.
  2. It may give you the opportunity to help out a jungler or mid laner early game.
  3. If you know your wave science, you can quickly set up a pressure wave in a lane with his meep passive.

But in general, I think having a champion that specializes in roaming might be a bigger problem than benefit, and here are my reasons why:

  1. Squishy + Roamer = bad. Bard is SUPER squishy, and if you run into anyone in the jungle with more base movement than you, or any kind of hard or persistent CC, you're not making it away from them unless you land your tricky stun, or you make really good use of your magical journey somehow. I won't say I'm the best player NA of course, far from it. But IMO, randomly walking about the jungle face checking bushes on a super squishy champ = feeding.

  2. If you're not with your ADC then your ADC has to 2v1. If your ADC is ahead, this is fine. And maybe even a good thing since they will soak up solo lane XP. But as a general rule, you can't just be absent from lane roaming all of the time, your lane won't win that way.

  3. You aren't getting as much gold as you could be. Chimes don't give any gold, and no matter what gold item you've got, you're losing gold by not being near minions and your ADC. This also goes for the gold per kill mastery skill too.

  4. "omg we lost team fight, where the hell was bard?" Late game in team fights, you are less likely to be where you need to be when you need to be there.

Those problems aside, I still feel like bard has another major issue. It seems that he is a new kind of support. He isn't a mage, a tank, or a healer. Which are the three general classifications for supports right now.

Why bard isn't a mage His AP ratios are very low, so building item 3157, item 3089, and item 3285 on him at the same time still don't give him relevant damage late game on his meeps, or his Q. Also, it is difficult for him to poke in lane with such a small HP pool and low def base stats.

Why bard isn't a healer Once again, he has low AP ratios, and his only healing spell's cooldown is far too high, and positioning too unreliable to make him known as a healer like Soraka.

Why bard isn't a tank He doesn't scale well off of tanky items either. I've seen a few people try it, it doesn't usually work out that well for them. They die just as fast as one without tank items. He also lacks any kind of tanky abilities or passives as well. I just put this here, for completion, it was obviously not riot's intention to make him anything like Braum or Alistar.

So what kind of support is bard? Well, I think riot's plan here was to make his relevance pretty much 100% utility. The first in his class i think. The core items on him seem to be item 3069, item 3117, and item 2045. None of which really bring a lot of raw power to a team fight or to a laning phase. His main focus seems to be mobility, and small to moderate CC.

Why I don't think this is good enough The lack of being either a damage absorber, or a damage dealer in a team fight, coupled with the very real possibility that he may not even be present for a team fight makes for the distinct feeling of the game being a 4v5 fairly often.

What could be done to make him more relevant? First of all, those chimes need to appear much more often on your own side of the jungle than your enemy's. And they need to appear way more between bot and mid rather than top lane in the beginning. Other than that, I have four ideas for directions to take him:

  1. Make his AP scale harder This would make him more of a magey AP support like a Nidalee or Annie. Now I know what you're going to say... "But should a champion that mobile really be able to deal damage too?" and my answer to that would be "Leblanc."

  2. Make his Meeps scale harder I think they could do a lot more. They could extend the range of his Q, increase the movement speed buff from his shrines, increase the healing on his shrines, scale harder off his AP, just have more damage in general, have a lower cooldown to spawn in (maybe based on CDR).

  3. Make him scale into an AD/AP hybrid support If the meeps spawned faster based on attack speed, and he had slightly higher defensive stats, he could be more effective at poking/engaging in lane and would be more relevant in team fights.

  4. Take his utility to the next level In keeping with the idea of having a purely utility/roaming kit, I think I like this set of ideas the best (pick a few of them, not all of them of course):

• Allow his shrines to grant vision. • Make the meeps placable like wards (but not count as wards. What good is all that roaming if you can only place a standard 3 wards + vision ward?) • Leave a vision trail behind him after collecting a chime that lasts for say 30 seconds. • Make his Q range longer • Make his base movement speed slowly scale off of meeps too • Make the temporary move speed buffs from chimes last just 2 or 3 seconds longer. Sometimes you lose that buff JUST before you hit the next one. • Allow you to assign a meep to your ADC similar to how Lulu can assign her pixie, allow it to perform CC with autos for several seconds. This may allow you to leave lane a little easier. • Use a meep to turn invisible, break/prevent a CC, spell shield/mitigate damage, or leave a clone like MonkeyKing in case you run into some unfortunate circumstances while roaming. • Use a meep to grant vision in a bush or around a corner so you don't run into enemies in the jungle in the first place. • Collecting a chime could grant you X-Ray-vision for a short time so your vision can see into bushes and around walls (like Quinn's ability) • Increase move speed buff on shrines with champion level, or on skill level, or on meep level. • Reduce travel time on his ultimate. It's very difficult to protect against other global ultimates if you have to throw it within half of a second of the other global starting for it to reach in time.

22 Comments

Meep Man3/17/2015, 1:58:50 AM12 votes

I think he needs to be a Roaming Support, but needs some moderate kit adjustments that fall in line with what you have said:

  • Health per Level increased to 90 from 85
  • Now gains 1.25 Magic Resist per level
  • Now starts off with having 2 Meeps instead of only 1
  • CDR now reduces Meep cool down
  • Upgrades now come every 4 Chimes from 5 Chimes
  • Out of Combat Movement Speed Duration increased to 15 seconds from 7 seconds
  • Q Projectile Speed Small Increase
  • W can hold 2 charges
  • W Delay reduced per level
  • E easier to click on/unique cursor icon
  • R Delay set to a flat amount from based on distance
  • R range increased

Boom, much better Bard. Basically a bunch of quality of life buffs with a few small buffs.

Sluiceway3/17/2015, 1:07:29 AM6 votes

I think you are on the right track, then you overshoot it when you make his meeps have a bunch of additional abilities. I think that Bard will inevitably use his Magical Journey to flank enemy champs, and he should not be so squishy given that he will be most likely the first one through the portal in order to land his stun. The other issue I have with him so far is that characters with similar stun against terrain spells (Poppy and Vayne) have much quicker cast animations and body/projectile speeds. Given the positional nature of Cosmic Binding, the cast animation and missile speed should be increased, especially because it is a skillshot (where Poppy's and Vayne's are targeted).

Duke Anax3/17/2015, 10:57:46 AM4 votes

I don't think he needs AP or AD scaling, because he scales from chimes and thus from roaming.

The problem is his fixed time scaling limit, it actually prevents him from doing what he is supposed to do: Roam.

He get's chimes exactly every 50 seconds. So no matter how much the Bard player roams, he can't advance faster than that. And it takes over an hour to reach 150 chimes.

What he needs is something that accelerates chime spawning when he collects them.

ANd more scaling on chimes, his shrines could scale with them too.

Kitten of Evil3/17/2015, 4:22:08 AM3 votes

Sorry, I TL;DRed your thing... but I'd say Bard is a utility support. Roaming is nice, but not necessary. Honestly. His chimes are up for 10 minutes. Roam when you get the chance but there's absolutely no urgency. He is 100% pure utility through and through. DO NOT BUILD AP. Except for item 3023 , which honestly works not because of the AP but because MS and CDR are the best stats on him. The active is also fantastic.

His ult may be the strongest single move in the game, and I'm not exaggerating a bit. If you use it well, it has incredible amounts of potential.

The two changes I think he needs are: faster spawning and/or faster scaling on his passive (at the moment, he literally cannot get his full 145 chimes until 61 minutes into game, at current spawn rates)... and a toggle on his meeps, since he often has to help his team attack Dragon and/or Baron, and is then left with zero meeps for the next battle.

Linna Excel3/17/2015, 11:32:07 AM2 votes

I'm definitely not the best ADC in the game and it's my worst role. With that in mind, I'm really uncomfortable with someone picking bard when I'm adcing.

As to what kind of support, he feels like he's a support you pick if you want 2 junglers but no support with the ADC. That's not a good thing.

TauNoob13/17/2015, 4:02:26 AM1 votes

I just think other champions do his job better. Would you rather see an enemy Bard come mid or a Leona/Annie?

mi ramfan3/17/2015, 10:36:56 AM1 votes

Pure utility support is a fine niche for Bard to play, as he can fit there without edging out any other supports. Janna is his main competition in that role, but since she is focused on peeling and babysitting while he's focused on roaming and enabling crazy engages, he should be fine.

His utility is already nuts in the right hands and doesn't need any buffs. He just needs more incentives to roam; for example, increasing XP gain from Chimes, lowering the early game cooldown of Magical Journey, or adding a passive movement speed component to Magical Journey would all greatly improve his early game roaming without making him too strong in lane to justify his roaming potential.

CoolKnightST3/17/2015, 3:35:50 PM1 votes

Actualy item 3301 isn't a good idea, since you will lose even more gold while roaming. Right now item 3303 or sightstone rush is your only valid start. Don't forget you will barely get any combat stats while you building him since you won't benefit from it anyway.

The Scavenger Mastery is also questionable since you won't be often in lane anyway. I think switching it for inspiration would be a better idea. Or just go even higher in the defensive tree.

What worries me the most is that every base stat on him is as low it can be. Hell they could add least gave him a little bit more hp early game. What I would do is give him 575 – 2020 hp (from 535 – 1980 hp). That's 40 more hp early game.

JevelFaithful3/17/2015, 4:11:34 PM1 votes

Nice read. But I don't htink adding more stuff on top of everything is the way to go for him.

Mostly, I'm not sure about all the "additionnal effects on taking chime". I got the feeling you wouldn't really control when/where you'd get them, so I'm not sure they'll actually be useful.

I like the "Chime grant vision" idea. Yet I feel like that might be a case of weird optimization where you don't know if you should take the chime or leave it.
EDTI : nvm you said shrine. That's interesting. But don't they already kind of do? If they're destroyed, you'll know.

I'm also not sure how you want to be able to manage giving meeps, getting stealth/shield/etc from them and warding with them. Both ideas are interesting (altought maybe gamebreaking for warding), but I'm not sure how you'd manage than in the UI. Those things are usually done with a special trinket or a skill. And how would you propose to activate the stealth/shield/CC. Also a stealth doesn't really fit with his theme I think.

NorthernDruid3/17/2015, 4:49:56 PM1 votes

Someone should make a thread over in Tips&Tricks centered around when and how to roam, in the style of the Kalista thread about adopting a puppy.

Because the difficulty the way I see it, is not really using his kit, but powering up his meeps by collecting enough chimes, and fulfilling the roaming role. I figure if you can manage to leave your shrines in good locations you can really manage to help out multiple lanes, I mean, it is the only non-ultimate long range healing ability in the game, and you can stack them.

To me, he feels like Lulu, but his kit lacks her diversity, his stuff only does one thing and while lulu gets stably empowered AAs and her spells are useable both offensively and defensively, Bard gets a periodically enhanced AA, and while each individual spell is really cool, they're not powerful enough to carry the situation for him since he only has one spell in any given situation.


Random idea what if...

  1. You could be displaced into his portals and/or
  2. His E was a short knockback effect aswell as creating the portals.

would that be cool? Giving him a small amount of peel?

Plus the epicness of shunting an enemy through the wall.