What is the purpose of lowering Wind Slash missile speed?

SquishyArchon·5/7/2015, 9:07:36 AM·21 votes·17,933 views

Is that what Riot considers a nerf? Am I supposed to be happy that now Riven's ult isn't faster than my flash and will just kill me a quarter of a second later?

You guys do this every single time. You "nerf" random shit that isn't even part of the reason that makes that champion OP or a nightmare to lane against patch after patch and we're left still trying to explain to you that Riven's fucking ult speed isn't what makes her good it's the fact that she can initiate against me half the fucking way across top lane and still chain CC me twice and execute me ALL WHILE GAINING A SHIELD MAKING IT IMPOSSIBLE FOR ME TO FIGHT BACK.

BUT IT'S OK. AT LEAST HER ULT WILL KILL ME SLOWER NOW. THANKS RITO.

49 Comments

RiotMeddler5/7/2015, 5:54:05 PM22 votes

We're testing a reduction to Riven's ult's travel speed to give her opponents a bit more time to react to it at longer range. The idea is that it should be more realistic to get off a clutch flash, heal or shield to save yourself or someone else if Riven's not directly on top of you when she uses Windslash.

Windslash speed certainly isn't one of Riven's core strengths and that's the reason we're hitting it. It's an opportunity to cut a bit of power off a champion we think's a bit strong without having to nerf her in a way that affects the things she's meant to be good at.

Rivini5/7/2015, 10:10:10 AM9 votes

You guys do this every single time. You "nerf" random shit that isn't even part of the reason that makes that champion OP or a nightmare to lane against

This is done for champions who are "flashy" and make plays often. Need to keep the LC$ entertaining to watch, so they keep the pros wanting to pick them over "boring" picks, like Nasus and Sona. Riven may not have been picked in the LC$ in a long while, but they want to keep her open for it.

Morgana is up next to receive nerfs. Instead of, say, nerfing her attack speed like with Zed, they are actually reducing her damage (which Morgana players will tell you is not easy to get off) because she is relatively boring to watch. Same reason why Janna recently had her passive nerfed harshly. Zed, on the other hand, is too flashy and full of "out-play" moments to take him out of the spotlight, so they found an area they can nerf without losing the pros' interest and quiet down the community.

Taking away 5 MS from Riven will do virtually nothing to affect her gameplay with all the mobility in her kit, like you said. Just like with Zed, this pitiful nerf is only being done to make players stop whining about her for a while. Same thing with the ult speed.

JJ H0G5/7/2015, 1:03:56 PM8 votes

If she blows 1-2 of her Qs or her E getting to you, she won't have the damage to duel you unless you are playing Bard or some shit.

Just Git Gud

Desiderium5/7/2015, 1:58:52 PM6 votes

Honestly these Riven changes make so much sense.

345 movement speed is massive for a champion that has such a retarded amount of built-in mobility. How does Ezreal have 325 when Riven has 340? It's STILL way more than she deserves. Zed's mobility is tied to his offense and defense, which is why he has 345 movespeed. Meanwhile Riven has completely unconditional mobility and still had 345. And now STILL has 340. Wow.

As for the missile speed reduction of her ult; that's just to help people react to it better. It'll give high-skill players more of a chance to flash out of it when they are in Riven's melee range (or near it.) Of course this creates edge cases where people might be able to literally walk out of your ult if they're far enough. In that case its maximum range actually becomes slightly lower. Riot should probably clarify that in the ability's range indicator. But they won't. Lol.

junglerboy165/7/2015, 1:15:49 PM3 votes

The missile speed reduction makes it easier to dodge. I guess it's their idea of adding counterplay to her, since you'll have an easier time juking it than before, which means you'll feel like you screwed up even worse when you do get hit lol!

SleepyLionCub5/7/2015, 1:29:36 PM3 votes

Her entire cc combo lasts 1.25 seconds. "Cc chain me twice"

Garurumon5/7/2015, 10:16:21 AM1 votes

Riven uses a lot of ultimates as finishers. With a bit reduced speed, they might not always delete them while they're running away and would just be hit at the edge.

MLDzXnRRR5/8/2015, 5:54:22 AM1 votes

Change her stun into a slow and Riven will be fair. This ult change is a joke.

Daright5/8/2015, 3:18:23 PM1 votes

Have you ever thought of actually adding a casting/channeling animation for the Wind Slash instead? For example, she holding the blade behind her as it would start growing green before realeasing Wind Slash?

A casting animation would solve the problem of never seing it coming and there wouldn't be the problem of nerfing the skill to the point it nearly becomes useless compared to it's main intention (finishing off weak foes) or a matter of luck. Especially if you make the player still be able to move while casting the Wind Slash and it will then fire towards the location where the mouse is when it ends the cast, that way if the foe gets hit it's because they didn't manage to avoid it, as they had a clear warning of what was comming.

Actually a casting animation for other champions would really solve some "unfairness" problems, like Annie's ult for example, she could have a casting animation in with she would throw Tibbers like a Zigg's bomb and where it ended at Tibbers would transform, this way foes would know what was comming and how to avoid it, instead of simply getting a sudden Tibbers to the face and die instantly.

There's probably more champions that some kind of a casting/channeling animation wouldn't hurt instead of the instant use, especially if you allow a player to move while it's channeling the cast, requiring skill from the player to succeed hitting (making it more interesting and challening) while foes can't complain abaut "not seeing it comming". Better then nerfing to a point that a skill either needs to be buffed somehow or ends up really not being a threat at all.

Not saying this nerf to Riven is making Wind Slash useless, but I just think that a simple casting/channeling animation could save alot of work to the balance team, especially towards more champions then just Riven.

notbad 925/9/2015, 8:11:10 AM1 votes

There is some case more important, like the damages on the xerath's W :/

Rand0mH3r0X5/9/2015, 8:22:03 AM1 votes

Riven has such little travel on her abilities. I think that people just need to learn that she's very easy to poke because she has no long range poke. Get that "long range poke" is her ultimate, which Riot is now nerfing. The Nerf makes sense, it's just too slow in my opinion.

Renekton has more mobility, a longer stun, built in lifesteal and a health boost. Renekton is a champion that can punish and chase Riven, but, not a lot of people play him...

Counter-Picking against Riven usually requires champions people don't rarely play...

MLDzXnRRR5/9/2015, 9:59:58 AM1 votes

Renekton's mobility skill is 450 range, his second use is conditional. His skills are with longer cooldowns, worse dmg and scaling, also he doesn't get shield for around 300 hp every 5 seconds. Riven kills most champions lvl 1, Renekton and Yorick are not exception. Renekton's playstyle is similar to the playstyle of Riven, but he has longer cooldowns and less damage, after he uses his skills.

Raptamei5/7/2015, 1:27:52 PM1 votes

Ideally you don't want to nerf a champion's strenths, but make their weaknesses worse. That's called variety.

Mallic5/10/2015, 4:26:39 AM1 votes

Hmm....one thing I've always found frustrating is that Riven can be extremely tanky and resilient with zero defensive items built. Largely because A) she has a shield that scales off of AD, which is never a good thing, and B) she has a stun whose damage is also based off of AD, with very little counterplay aside from flashing away before she dashes.

I want to propose two possible ideas. The first is making her shield scale either off of bonus health, or not at all (a la Jarvan's shield ability), and having her stun damage either AP based or bonus health based. Anything that takes out free power scaling from building nothing but AD is a plus for Riven.

Secondly, her charge system. Right now, she is encouraged to use her abilities to stick to people, because abilities make her autoattacks more effective. Since her abilities are on such low cooldown, however, this doesn't really feel rewarding so much as free extra damage that's up all the time. What I would propose is that the charges go THE OTHER WAY. Here, autoattacking would build her charges, and her abilities would be more effective based on how many charges she has. They can still be used without her charges, but, say, her oh-so-exploitable stun would be a slow if you used it without any charges built up, but would stun people when you have charges built up. Every use of an ability would absorb one of those charges, and the power of the ability would depend on how many charges you had when you used it. The exception to this could be her ult: it will absorb ALL the charges, and during her ult (until she either releases it or it just wears off), all her abilities would function as if they were used at full charge capacity, or at the charge capacity she was at before her ult. This way, the charge-building mechanic she has would feel a little more rewarding, I believe, and more like a bit of power that you worked hard to build instead of just...free autoattack damage when you spam your abilities.

So, for example, lets say the cap on your charges is 4. You've just last-hit four minions, so those charges are available to use. You dash, giving you a sizeable shield (max charge level), then stun for a decent amount(level 3), then do your three Q slashes (which absorb only one charge total, level 2). In this example, the shield would've had the strongest "charge" scaling, since it was used when you had 4 charges; it then absorbs one charge. Unless you auto-attacked before hitting the target, the stun would have had a third-level "charge" scaling, and so would've stunned for a good bit of time, but not as long as if it was used at max charges; another charge gone. Next, the three slashes with Q would've done decent damage, but it would NOT burst someone down too quickly, as it was used with only 2 charges stored; now you're down to one charge. Here, you could potentially ult, but if the ult is modified to follow all the other ability patterns, it would only have a 1-charge effectiveness; all abilities used during ult would only be as effective as if you had one charge built, and no charges are built or consumed during ult. Might possibly make ult either automatically place you at max charges, or give two charges when used.

The charges would have to have a LONG duration on them, so that you could, say, max it out doing red buff (if you wanna try jungle Riven), then walk down to bot/top lane to pwn somebody. When they DO fall off, they do so one at a time.

GiveMeTalonPlz5/7/2015, 1:54:49 PM1 votes

Riven's not OP, you are being a baby. Learn to play the game.