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Quinn, the victim of counterplay

Arrez·9/26/2015, 3:18:14 PM·3 votes·908 views

Champions come seemingly out of nowhere sometimes when released with re-works. They rationale is sound so no hate on Riot when the most recent example, Fiora, came out. This even gave me hope that Quinn may be next.

One thing that I do not see discussed with Quinn is the context surrounding her release. The context back in those days was the conversation about "counter-play".

Months leading up to Quinn's release, this subject became more dominant as champions had game-play that would not allow for quick decisions to counter or offset an opponents kit. Quinn was released as these discussions became a big focal point for Riot and this is my take on how "counter-play" killed Quinn upon arrival.

Passive: Her passive give's significant power yet was random and would easily put Quinn in harms way if she tried to attack every time someone was marked. Thus built in counter-play.

Q [Blinding Assault]: A decent ability with a blind attached to it which offered a small utility that could save Quinn.... except it has a lot of built in counter-play, specifically, the blind hit's the first thing which makes it extremely easy to hit minions, or hide behind minions and cutting the range and effectiveness of this ability making Quinn a very short range Marksman.

W [Heightened Awareness]: Good ability with a decent utility passive. Unfortunate that it does not reveal stealth.

E [Vault]: Great concept for an ability and had to get fixed as Quinn was constantly put in disadvantageous positions for using an ability designed to help her.

R [Tag Team]: This is the biggest failure to Quinn. The idea of a marksman going full assassin is great in concept, however the amount of decision making around this one ability is high... -Abilities share cooldowns limiting the power of combo/ finishing power.
-The movement speed has to charge up which means that in clutch situations, there isn't enough time for Valor to get out

  • No additional stats to match Valor going into melee form
  • Long cooldown with an already highly limited ability

Riot already discussed their disappointment in Quinn so this is not to rehash old feelings, rather offer some context as she gets new ideas on how to tweak her.

I think that two ability changes put Quinn in a great position. The first is that her Q goes through units blinding them along the path. This gives her the ability to catch champions.

Second, One of the following (because doing both would quickly make her too strong)... (1) Unlink her abilities so that Quinn's and Valor's abilities are not linked (remember that are two separate entities, to have their abilities locked by the other doesn't make a lot of sense. (2) Keep their abilities linked but have tag team available on demand like like that of Nidalee (this makes more sense to have their abilities linked).

I would prefer having these two tweaks over giving Quinn additional range as it would keep with her theme and identity far better. Yes, additional range would make Quinn more powerful, but buffing her Q to go through units and having her R changed with my suggestions would fit her identity and still keep healthy counter-play on the table.

8 Comments

Teridax689/26/2015, 4:02:11 PM2 votes

I agree that R needs to change, and decoupling Quinn and Valor's abilities would make a lot of sense, but I don't think having her Q pass through units would be the best solution, as it would mainly just buff her in the laning phase, where she's already fairly strong compared to most other marksmen (and top laners, who she can poke fairly easily already). I'm not the biggest Quinn player, but here are my thoughts on her:

  • Outside of her actual power, a big issue with Quinn is with the satisfaction of attacking and using spells with her. Her autoattack animation is fairly clunky, which is a massive problem for any AD champion (especially a marksman, whose kiting paradigm is completely based on auto canceling), and Harrier just doesn't sync with a typical Quinn player's target selection as well as it should.
  • I think a large problem with Quinn's Q comes from the fact that blind is not a very well-designed mechanic. It doesn't carry the best visual or gameplay feedback for either side, and adding to the confusion is the heap of on-hit effects and attack modifiers that go through it completely. If Quinn's Q disarmed enemies, and thus prevented them from autoattacking at all, instead of blinding them, then the spell would likely feel a bit better.
  • Tag Team should, imo, have Valor be an assassin, but with a kit that carries vision, CC and a focus on DPS over burst, on top of no real defenses beyond a short-ranged blind, Valor's never going to be able to do his job as well as he should (the fact that Harrier is disabled when Valor's up also smacks of anti-synergy). Perhaps Quinn should instead be a tankier marksman, with Valor trading off range for even greater mobility, DPS and an execute, but until their kit truly accomodates that, switching forms is always going to be awkward.
FalconPawwwwnch9/26/2015, 6:37:43 PM2 votes

She has no healthy counterplay though, that's why Riot isn't buffing her

You have no options when laning vs. Quinn as a melee champion, you can't engage on her because instant disengage, you can't last hit because high AD + ranged autoattacks, you can't use bushes because her reveal, you can't fight her because of her blind

Where are the options exactly