Pyke is not a support.

Risen29·6/12/2018, 12:30:12 AM·10 votes·4,081 views

This is like a repeat of the mordekaiser rework failure. Just because you call an AP juggernaut an ADC doesn't mean he can actually fulfill the role of an ADC for a team. You're missing the entire reason why teams have an ADC in the first place. It's not just some arbitrary duo role you can shove anything into just because they do well in a paired setting. Fundamentally you need something that scales their damage well with auto attacks to have unmatched late game damage that can be delivered safely from range. Mordekaiser's rework doesn't fulfill that fundamental need teams have, so there's no reason to take him bottom lane despite having a kit purposely designed to do so. Nor is there really any need for a support when he's not that vulnerable in a solo situation. And the late game payoff isn't there to justify devoting the team resources to it.


Pyke, likewise, doesn't fulfill enough of the fundamental functions of a support to be good at this role and truly called a support.

Supports do some or all of the following to a high degree:

  1. Protect the ADC during laning phase.
  2. Set up kills for ADC during laning phase.
  3. Peel for and/or protect their team in teamfights
  4. Set up kills for the team in teamfights.
  5. Are force multipliers for their entire team. (ie. their abilities, when used properly, make a team much stronger than the sum of it's parts).

Pyke only does #2 and #4 to an extent, but doesn't even do it better than other options available. Although the ability to cause an enemy to be out of position is why he is labeled a "controller", subclass "catcher", and not an "assassin" (assassins don't have any abilities like this), the fact is that his passive and three other abilities do nothing at all to facilitate the controller or catcher playstyle. He's designed as an assassin first and foremost with a minor controller element thrown in.

Because of this, pyke cannot optimally or even really effectively fulfill the role of support for the reasons you actually need a support on your team. He will likely only have success in scenarios where you could have taken any other assassin to the support lane - ie. You get some early picks and get your lane fed. I mean, I can do that with Talon - but that doesn't make him a real support. Talon might fulfill the minor role of helping peel for the ADC in lane phase, but the real victory condition here is an assassin victory condition - kill lane, get fed, roam. About the only thing Pyke has going for him mid/late game is that he can CC more than Talon in teamfight contexts.

Pyke would have an assassin victory condition if he had more damage himself. But he depends early more on his teammates for damage. That's why many are saying he belongs in the jungle. There his minor catcher abilities combined with his roam abilities will be better put to use, letting a stronger support be the support. But it's typical for a jungler to rely on their teammate laners to help them secure kills so his lack of damage doesn't become a liability as long as he can CC and hook the enemy for his teammate during a gank. The problem with Pyke is that he was probably designed purposely to have bad clears as a way of arbitrarily forcing him into the support role. The only way he'll stay support is if his clears and early dueling are so bad that he just can't hack it in the jungle. Because he just doesn't belong in the support role unless he has no other options left. His lack of early DPS will give him no viable way of playing anywhere but support, but he will be inferior to most other picks in that role. So pyke will really only be played support by people who just want to play pyke, but have nowhere else to put him - it will have little to do with him actually being a good support.

73 Comments

z63XnLCMwX6/12/2018, 3:42:25 AM4 votes

I found your logic to be flawed. The only criteria that a support should have is

  1. Main warder on the team.
  2. Main ward destroyer on the team.
  3. Be able to generate enough pressure to alleviate the pressure on the carry, which consists of peeling or as a kill threat to the enemy.
  4. Scale well with low gold income.

As long as any champion is able to fulfill these criteria, they can act as an support.

If you played back in S2, nidalee was considered support, but she had 0 peel for her adc. All she had were damage chucking spears. Even in this season, on release zoe had a high success when played as support and she brings as much to the table as Pyke.

five oh tree 6/12/2018, 12:55:48 AM4 votes

I'm going to be honest: you're kind of an idiot.

Supports are any champions that can work well with limited income. That's essentially the only requirement for the role. That's why you see champions like Blitzcrank ranging to mages like Brand and many tanks such as Leona.

Pyke has a pull, which in itself is enough to let him be played as a support. Paired with an aoe stun and good roaming potential through his w, his basic abilities are fairly decent for a support kit. They tried to discourage his solo laning by giving him large early CDs as well.

Now his ult is where the really unique aspect of his kit is: shared gold on kills. This is the epitome of support functions. This ability only functions at its max potential with another champion, so his kit is obviously intended as either a support or jungler.

support =/= enchanter

VvVVvV6/12/2018, 5:02:04 AM3 votes

This is just your opinion....after the 1st week fails because he was new i've actually seen some very good Pyke supports.

KlydeFrog6/12/2018, 8:48:55 PM2 votes

Reason people took morde was he can build ad ap. I build him bruiser ad or ap always but the point of morde is he will gain levels faster due to passive on w . gain bonus xp when ally is near with cs dying

MagicFlyingLlama6/12/2018, 12:40:26 AM2 votes

So Brand is not a support.. Just someone who goes botlane and does really well.

Done256/12/2018, 12:41:43 PM2 votes

At first Pyke might not look like an actual legit support. He can't heal or shield and his ult only offers damage. Completely awful, right? Well not quite. Think more "Warden" than "Enchanter". He's kin to Thresh/Blitz/Nautilus rather than he is Soraka or Sona.

1 - Protect the ADC during laning phase.

Jungler jumps out of the bush at your ADC. Q to rip him off then dash over him for the stun.

2 - Set up kills for ADC during laning phase.

He excels at this with his yank+stun.

3 - Peel for and/or protect their team in teamfights

He can't shield or heal anyone, but he does have peel.

4 - Set up kills for the team in teamfights.

Q->E->R

5 - Are force multipliers for their entire team. (ie. their abilities, when used properly, make a team much stronger than the sum of it's parts).

He's not an enchanter, but he does offer strong peel/hard CC with a clean up ult.

UnboundHades6/12/2018, 7:55:31 PM2 votes

its hard to tell if this is a shitpost or you are actually delusional based on the op itself and your copy/paste comments

SSmotzer6/12/2018, 3:12:40 AM1 votes

My main supports are Gangplank, Teemo, Swain, and Nidalee. Are those supports?