Skip to content

Oracle's Alteration Should Not Activate Boxes.

Gank Top Instead··140 votes·22,038 views

Hello, Pink Ward here, long time AP Shaco main living in mid to high diamond for the past couple of seasons. I come here today to talk about AP Shaco and the difficulties the playstyle has faced due to AD Shaco being too strong. AD Shaco is by far the best way to play Shaco. Whether it be Jungle, Full AD Assassin, Duskblade, Yomuus, one shots or Duskblade Trinity Bruiser, it is definitely the best way to play Shaco. This playstyle has very little counterplay, as Shaco's stealth is one of the more infuriating things about playing against the champion. Yet, the champion doesn't have much damage built into his kit. AD Shaco gets most of his damage through the items he snowballs into. And in the longterm of games, Shaco's W is fairly weak and maxed last. It's fairly worthless to AD Shaco players outside of jungle camps or an after thought. This is where my playstyle I've created comes into play.

As an AP Shaco main, I have always tried my best to think ahead and using my game knowledge I've obtained over years of playing, I'm able to predict what my opponents will do. Setting up boxes to try and get the best outcome out of situations. Yet, Shaco's boxes have one huge weakness. A FREE item that lasts 10 seconds, able to be bought by everyone on a team, Oracle's Alteration (Along with Control Wards effect.) How red trinket works against Shaco's traps are completely different from other traps in the game. Against Jhin, Teemo and Nidalee, when the red trinket effect is hovered over the traps, they become visible, reducing their vision and become attackable. Someone MUST attack them to kill them, or they will go back to being invisible once the Trinket/Control Ward effect wears off. It is different with Shaco's boxes. It activates the boxes and leaves them to die after the 5 seconds of lifespan they have after being activated. Take this clip vs Zed for example. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Xfo6MUG9jQ

In the clip you see Zed pop Oracles Alteration. He's being greedy, so he's running into all the boxes, tanking the damage from them. But any sane person would see the boxes and just walk away. Now take notice of the two boxes at the bottom, they do nothing. They get activated and die after 5 seconds. Those 2 boxes are effectively 30 seconds of the game taken away from Shaco. Red trinket completely reduces this playstyle to irrelevancy. Some great examples of Red trinket if it countered other abilities in the game would be if those two boxes were Teemo shrooms instead, what if they instantly explode when hovered by the red trinket, would that be fair? Or while chasing Singed, if activating red trinket would get rid of his poison trail as you chased him down. It would make these champions completely useless.

Some of you will say that Shaco's "playstyle" is AD Assassin, jump in and one shot. And yes, you are correct, but that's because Riot has nurtured Shaco into that. Every little thing they've done to Shaco has taken away from the box playstyle and pushed him towards an On Hit Assassin. They added on hit damage to backstab, on hit damage to Deceive (Shaco's Q), Changed E from Magic damage to Physical damage. This is the toxic playstyle that everyone hates to play against. Why would you want to argue for more players to play this playstyle? AP Shaco was a unique and intricate way to play Shaco because your playstyle would evolve depending on what your opponent would do or how they would play. And it was always easily counterable, don't chase shaco into his boxes, then he won't have the damage to kill you. But now, with anyone able to /purchase/ a free item, it just devolves the playstyle into nothing.

Riot's explanation of why this is how Red trinkets works is due to melees needing counterplay to Shaco boxes. Yet, there are countless melees in the game that can one shot boxes at level 9, usually the time an enemy will be buying a red trinket. Red trinket makes the Shaco matchup a complete joke because now boxes lose their fear effect and can be one shot. Any meta champion makes a joke out of Shaco boxes once scanned. Here are a couple of examples, Renekton One shots boxes with furried Q, Irelia can Q hops to any visible boxes once her Q is lvl 5, killing each box in one shot. Jax's counterstrike dodges box autos, then stuns them. Aatrox out ranges and one shot's boxes before level 9 due to mass amounts of aoe. Viktor is a ranged champion, so boxes don't effect him much anyway. My point is there are many ways to counter Shaco boxes that don't just make them a worthless ability. Without red trinket, I have a chance to fight back against other champions. The box fear is a main factor of the AP Shaco playstyle, but without it, you're forced to play AP Shaco as an inferior AP on hit Assassin.

My suggestion would to make red trinket have the same effect on boxes that pink wards used to have on them. Give vision of the boxes for Ranged champions to clear, or for lower IQ players to run into. Adding to this, in lane, minions aggro boxes as if they were minions to attack. So if they are revealed, minions will walk into them and activate the boxes. Many of you will probably complain, not wanting a "buff" to AD shaco, but this wouldn't be a buff to AD Shaco. Very few, if any, AD Shaco players will gain any benefit from a change to red trinket. Wrapping this up, this playstyle is supposed to counter stupidity and greediness. Red trinket is just a cheat sheet for the IQ test that are Shaco boxes.

Thank you for your time reading. Much love.

93 Comments

The Blender39 votes

i feel like boxes should work like teemo shrooms you can see them but they still activate if you run into them just like you suggested

Eedat14 votes

Issue is unlike Teemo shrooms you wouldn't be able to disable them if you're melee

No Chat System3 votes

{quoted}

Issue is unlike Teemo shrooms you wouldn't be able to disable them if you're melee

And why is that?

If they cared they could code the box a bigger hitbox while disabled to allow melee destruction.

Z3Sleeper11 votes

Well if they did that I wouldn't mind. But as a purely melee champion player I hate boxes. Melee champs that don't have spammable ranged spells that oneshot them are effectively zoned out of that area.

Also, Oracle's Lens is a 90-60 second cooldown and replaces ward trinket. That's already a huge trade-off to pay to combat a champion's kit.

LXII1 votes

Oh no, the trap zones you out of an area?!?!

That's the whole point of them. Why should you get to ignore an entire ability just because you have a trinket? Seeing them is plenty.

Z3Sleeper2 votes

Until that "area" is literally your lane.

The boxes being "killed" by Oracles without being attacked is pretty shitty, I can agree with that. But your trinket being negated by one of the things it's literally designed to counter is also shitty.

So there's two options here I can accept: 1) Stays as is. 2) Boxes don't activate under Oracles under any circumstance. They don't kill themselves but they also don't pop up and fear someone clearing them with Oracles.

Edit: Whoops forgot the third: 3) Boxes activate under Oracles but have increased hit range or reduced fear range while under the effect so melee champs can hit em without activating them.

LXII1 votes

It's impossible to block an entire lane with traps.. not only can they not stack within a certain area, but minions will easily clear them in most places.

Both of those options suck tbh, a free item with no cost to activate and a relatively low cd shouldn't hold that much power over a whole champion. If they shifted that power over to a control ward then that might be acceptable, but a free trinket that follows you around... really?

Z3Sleeper1 votes

A "free" trinket that replaces the one that makes your lane way safer? A free trinket with a 90-60 second cooldown?

Teemo's shrooms are still a threat even with Oracles and that's an ultimate ability with a 30 second cooldown too.

And ofcourse not the entire lane. Minions exist. But hell, look at the clip. Look at that massive safety net of boxes granted by being ahead in the lane. And when Shaco isn't ahead those boxes are on the sides where minions can't roam to, locking you behind your minions.

So tell me, if Oracles did absolutely nothing to boxes, what's the counterplay? Spend 225 gold on 3 control wards every time you back (and therefore lose vision control from an actual well placed CW)? Never venture outside your minion wave and completely give up lane control? There has to be counterplay and Riot specifically designed Oracles (previously the elixir) to be that counterplay.

LXII1 votes

You ever play against an ap Shaco in lane? The counterplay is that he literally can't do anything to you unless you walk into the boxes repeatedly. Just outfarm him and win the game?

The Teemo point falls flat again because using oracles doesn't do a single thing to them besides reveal them. They will still slow you and damage you if you just decide to chimp through them. Shaco's boxes cease their primary function the second they hit with a sweeper. It's not the same thing.

Z3Sleeper1 votes

{quoted}

The Teemo point falls flat again because using oracles doesn't do a single thing to them besides reveal them. They will still slow you and damage you if you just decide to chimp through them. Shaco's boxes cease their primary function the second they hit with a sweeper. It's not the same thing.

There's the point. It's the same thing. I totally missed one of the "options" I meant to put in a previous comment to make them basically the same as shrooms.

{quoted}

Edit: Whoops forgot the third: 3) Boxes activate under Oracles but have increased hit range or reduced fear range while under the effect so melee champs can hit em without activating them.

LXII2 votes

It's not the same though, Shaco's boxes will still hit you if you chimp through them, but the second that red light touches them they lose the ability to fear. Teemo's shrooms do not lose their slow when revealed by oracle. I'd even go as far as to say the fear is most of the importance of the box, so losing that alone is huge.

To be honest with you I don't think there needs to be any compensation at all. Zed would have a really hard time killing an evenly skilled and fed Malphite, so why doesn't oracle reduce Malphite's armor by 75% to make it "fair" for the Zed? Not all champs should have an easy option against everything. There should be some situations where you need a teammate to do the thing you want to do (in this case, clearing out Shaco boxes).

Or you could just easily outfarm him and kill him literally any time he leaves the safety of his boxes. But hey, might as well take the boxes away too, the guy could use yet another weakness in lane.

420StealYourGirl1 votes

{quoted}

You ever play against an ap Shaco in lane? The counterplay is that he literally can't do anything to you unless you walk into the boxes repeatedly. Just outfarm him and win the game?

The Teemo point falls flat again because using oracles doesn't do a single thing to them besides reveal them. They will still slow you and damage you if you just decide to chimp through them. Shaco's boxes cease their primary function the second they hit with a sweeper. It's not the same thing.

Uh, most of these points fall flat, because unlike LITERALLY EVERY OTHER TRAP IN THE GAME (Zyra plants aren't a trap, but they pop Shaco boxes and damage them, while Shaco boxes cannot hurt them at all), Shaco's boxes take FULL damage from all AoE, targeted AND non-targeted abilities. You can't kill Teemo shrooms with an Ezreal Q, or Garen's E, or Ahri's W, or any one of Aatrox's hits. You can do that to Shaco boxes without a sweeper. Once they're revealed, sure. They might do a bit of damage. But they die instantly if you have ANY awareness or AoE abilities. They have no scaling HP or resists.

Teemo shrooms? Nid Traps? Jhin traps? No matter the AD or AP you have, they take multiple hits. Shaco boxes? Grab a Sheen at level 6 and they're dead. Buy a Stormrazor and they're dead. BEFORE they arm.

Finally, Shaco boxes have TWO instances of crowd control -- first the fear, then the cripple of 100 MS running away. BOTH of these are canceled by Sweeper, as well as making them far too easy to kill.

TisBis1 votes

What are you supposed to do about them then? You can't attack them without setting them off unlike shrooms

Crispy0Snake37 votes

The boxes should be silenced and revealed (so that melees can destroy them) for the duration of the oracle, and then go back to their "armed" hidden state imo.

If I use an oracle, and go up to destroy the box, I shouldn't be feared and shot to death, otherwise the boxes have more agency than Teemo's ultimate ability. I know that comparing two abilities in different kits is often a bad idea, but they're both traps that essentially do magic dot and cc.

Also when there are two ways of playing a champion, one will naturally be better than the other, and the meta build of that champion will polarise to the strongest build.

I would like Lich bane supports to be more viable as it would widen the support champion pool and introduce more skill matchups, but reducing the cost of lich bane (because it's gold efficiency compared to ludens, other sheen items and hextech items, is garbage) has knock on effects to lots of champions including, coincidentally, AP shaco. I think AP Shaco suffers from the Lich Bane balancing problem (if you reduce cost and nerf the champions that have it in their meta build to balance them, you create a reliance on that item, meaning their build path becomes less creative. So you keep the cost high to increase creativity, gutting champions that want to build it) and that's a big problem for him imo, as the item should cost 2900 tops. It delays AP shaco's item powerspike by a few key mid game minutes.

I'd also like armour stacking malphite support to be viable, but he can't trade in lane without a lot of damage on his Q so you auto lose vs any enemy bot laners with brains, so he's forced to go AP. I could ask for more base Q damage and less scaling to fix this, but people see "more base damage ree" and won't realise that it encourages tankier builds.

Point is, riot doesn't seem to care too much about how to make champions fun and rewarding to play. They seem to like to make champions awful to play against and unrewarding to play. When I kill someone with one rotation of abilities as AP Malphite support, I feel kinda bad, if anything.

This Is Your Dad1 votes

What about armor scaling on q too? Lol.

Beast Brawler1 votes

But Shaco's boxes should and already do have more agency than Teemo's ultimate, they're cc and damage. Teemo's R is a short cd for a mushroom that slows and does damage.

LXII4 votes

They most definitely should not be "silenced".. your comparison to Teemo falls flat as well. Teemo's shrooms will still go off if you walk over them, red trinket changes nothing about how they work other than the fact that you can now see them. Seeing Shaco's box gives you the option to not walk into it, that's all the counterplay you should be granted from using a trinket against a core ability of a champion. Completely disabling Shaco's boxes because you activated a free item is the furthest thing from a good idea (in fact I think they already did that and they took it away because it was stupid).

Daddy Ants16 votes

Oracles should reveal boxes but not activate them.

Sunbird15 votes

Do you realize, unlike Nidalee, Jhin or Teemo, your traps have ranged attacks with huge damage and AOE fear ? Who cares if you are able to see the traps, when you can not safely approach them to kill them?

Votable Jester15 votes

Maybe to handle that it could reduce the range at which they proc? That way melees can still destroy them, but if they try to just run through them they get feared.

KazeDoc1 votes

If you reduce it's range that much, anyone can just walk between the boxes and kill the shaco without him being able to stop you.

Lush Father2 votes

But like he stated, only AP shaco mains use his boxes like this. No AD shaco player is going to utilize them to their full affect, and end up maxing it last.

They'll do like 20 damage an auto factoring MR when built AD until like level 15-17, it's completely meaningless when you could instead just insta-gib someone with duskblade.

hasten2 votes

u don't say the problem is that they focus on ad shaco which everyone hates while at the same time nerfing the living shit out of ap shaco.The whole point of this is to encourage shaco being played as top (with that oracle change he suggested) the way he did for all those years, not for buffing shaco in general.It will not change the ad shaco as it is since it will be barely a buff which ad shaco does NOT need while it can make a difference for shaco at top.So i gonna ask again what exactly is the problem with this change?

ShacoBigBalls696 votes

They literally last a minute. If someone can't stay away from a obviously located box, then they are exactly what AP shaco targets as a player. If someone can avoid trading with shaco and just not be a dumbass then its not a problem.

kargish4 votes

AND it also has a 16 seconds cooldown, so inbetween that 1 minute (+5% AP), Shaco will have placed 4 more obvious boxes that you need to keep track of.

Just Monikha7 votes

Even some Shaco players hate this playstyle, you can't juke or play with enemy's mind anymore, you just jump on it, pray for no Tabi and if no Tabi then it s almost one clic one death, super unhealthy gameplay overall that would produce only frustration either for Shaco players (insta useless after 1100gold item) or for people playing against Shaco (no Tabi = you dead except when you re a tank). Just played a game where i faced Shaco, i told all my team to go straight Ninja Tabi and guess what, the Shaco couldn t even take 1/4 life with full combo, ignite included and i litteraly danced when he was arround then he threw his E to me when i was full life and i just regen the spell the next second like nothing happen. Now imagine if it was AP Shaco, still against full Ninja Tabi and 1 or 2 Oracles, imagine just a second what kind of hell Shaco is also super super super buggy, here s a list of Shaco bugs i ve identified, let s be clear on this point I don t wanna only say bugs that nerf Shaco because i main this champion, having some kind of real balance in this game really seems to be welcome. CARE some of them might be fixed, I havn't tested if they re still here :

Bug on spells only :

  • Backstab cd seems to be canceled by the next autoattack on the blue side gromp and on the scuttle crab next to Herald.
  • Backstab can be procced twice in a row when you autoattacks at the end of the cd.
  • Cancel autoattack after Q cancel the Q invisibility (and damage obviously)
  • Seems to not be special to Shaco since it also happened to me as Kha'Zix and , times to times Shaco Q does not makes Shaco invisible (he can get hit by targeted spells while in Q), same applies for Kha'Zix R.
  • This isn't a bug but i would call it like this : Fear range on Shaco boxes can allow the enemy to get out of box attack range, which is weird.
  • Shaco boxes times to times do not activate when an enemy passes near even if it s way longer after the incantation.
  • Shaco boxes can't hit the Nashor, the Nexus and the inhibitors at some places while they re clearly in range to hit those targets (forces you to pose them in at a special place).
  • NOT A BUG, A JOKE (write it in full caps in case ppl do not understand) : ShAcO E dAmAgE
  • Shaco clone can't hit inhibitors and Nexus by pressing R on those targets, you need to alt clic.
  • Shaco clone times to times do not try to hit the enemy that killed Shaco.
  • Shaco clone times to times will not hit another target than your even if you ordered it.

Bugs on spells with items/runes :

  • Backstab override Stormrazor.
  • Q doesn't proc Luden's Echoes (while other autoattack buffs proc it like Jax W, don't ask me how I know it lmao)
  • W doesn't proc : Luden, Spellthief times to times, Liandry, Dark Harvest and Comet.
  • Clone doesn't get stats from those runes : Celerity, Waterwalking, Gathering Storm, Ghost Poro, Recentless Hunter, Predator, Transcendence, Magical Footwear, Approach Velocity, Overgrowth, Conditioning, Unflinching and Grasp of Undying (he looses the stats you gain) BUT proc on Lethal Tempo and Hail of Blades.
  • Shaco clone can't proc Guinsoo Rageblade.
  • Shaco clone can get link by Zeke's Convergence but not with Knight's Vow.
  • Shaco clone can stack energized attack by walking but can't stack it/ use it by attacking.
  • Shaco clone can't proc the Elexir of Sorcery true damage.
  • You can heal your clone by using Font of life but your clone can't heal you (or it s the contrary, i actually do not remember).
  • You can't heal your clone with Athene's Unholy Grail.

This have been 2 years like this, some Shaco OTP cannot support it anymore, we re getting indirect nerfs every single time Riot Games thinks about an indirect nerf they can make to AD Shaco (no need to AP Shaco when you see his state, pretty sad tho), removal of attack speed from Machete, creation of the passive Monster Hunter for Machete while Shaco seems to be the only jungler that most of times keeps the Machete (thanks God this is finally removed), 2 Tiamat nerfs, Dark Harvest rework and nerf, Electrocute nerf, Sudden Impact nerf, Cheap Shot nerf (i know some Shaco players use this rune), removal of the AD from Celerity, 2 Duskblade nerfs and Ninja Tabi buff on %Damage reduction. All these nerfs in one year, with what compensation ? Oh a 10-50 damage and 70% AD ratio Q buff nerfed the next patch to 30% AD ratio. And this while a majority of Shaco players are yelling for a full revert since 6.22.

So now Riot Games if you read this message do one thing, one simple thing : REVERT SHACO Shaco

Hügö4 votes

The buff you suggest would make them so that melees couldn't clear them right? That would be pretty lame tbh. I think oracle should make them revealed and activate them when the champion gets in attack range. When he just spots them and walks away they should go back into stealth.

oortoomeebreesuu3 votes

Pink Ward, you're my favorite one trick. My upvote does nothing, but I'm upvoting harder than ever before.

This Is Your Dad2 votes

I think that boxes under oracles should be disabled but not trigger. So basically they do not vanish after 5 seconds and act as if you never went near them. Then as a melee you can hit them, offering some counterplay, but as Ap Shaco if you put a crapton of boxes out they won't all vanish just from oracles revealing them. Exactly like teemo shrooms.

DuskDaUmbreon2 votes

The problem with that is that most melee champions have zero ability to clear them without activating them.

If this happened, it would have to be like what BigBrain said - It would need to still disable them. That, or they just need a total activation range nerf, so that melee champions can actually get in range of it to destroy them.

0 Hogapu2 votes

Shouldn't revealed boxes be targetable, yet not activated ? Might be unfair for melee champs, but if they know where boxes stand, they will dodge them and voila ..

One Quacky Boi2 votes

I think a good way to change this would be to prevent the revealed boxes from fearing if someone walks into them, but having them return to invisibilty if noboby steps inside of their attack range.

Cloud2731 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pink Ward,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=A99Ffqh3,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-12-22T07:27:25.646+0000)

Hello, Pink Ward here, long time AP Shaco main living in mid to high diamond for the past couple of seasons. I come here today to talk about AP Shaco and the difficulties the playstyle has faced due to AD Shaco being too strong. AD Shaco is by far the best way to play Shaco. Whether it be Jungle, Full AD Assassin, Duskblade, Yomuus, one shots or Duskblade Trinity Bruiser, it is definitely the best way to play Shaco. This playstyle has very little counterplay, as Shaco's stealth is one of the more infuriating things about playing against the champion. Yet, the champion doesn't have much damage built into his kit. AD Shaco gets most of his damage through the items he snowballs into. And in the longterm of games, Shaco's W is fairly weak and maxed last. It's fairly worthless to AD Shaco players outside of jungle camps or an after thought. This is where my playstyle I've created comes into play.

As an AP Shaco main, I have always tried my best to think ahead and using my game knowledge I've obtained over years of playing, I'm able to predict what my opponents will do. Setting up boxes to try and get the best outcome out of situations. Yet, Shaco's boxes have one huge weakness. A FREE item that lasts 10 seconds, able to be bought by everyone on a team, Oracle's Alteration (Along with Control Wards effect.) How red trinket works against Shaco's traps are completely different from other traps in the game. Against Jhin, Teemo and Nidalee, when the red trinket effect is hovered over the traps, they become visible, reducing their vision and become attackable. Someone MUST attack them to kill them, or they will go back to being invisible once the Trinket/Control Ward effect wears off. It is different with Shaco's boxes. It activates the boxes and leaves them to die after the 5 seconds of lifespan they have after being activated. Take this clip vs Zed for example. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Xfo6MUG9jQ

In the clip you see Zed pop Oracles Alteration. He's being greedy, so he's running into all the boxes, tanking the damage from them. But any sane person would see the boxes and just walk away. Now take notice of the two boxes at the bottom, they do nothing. They get activated and die after 5 seconds. Those 2 boxes are effectively 30 seconds of the game taken away from Shaco. Red trinket completely reduces this playstyle to irrelevancy. Some great examples of Red trinket if it countered other abilities in the game would be if those two boxes were Teemo shrooms instead, what if they instantly explode when hovered by the red trinket, would that be fair? Or while chasing Singed, if activating red trinket would get rid of his poison trail as you chased him down. It would make these champions completely useless.

Some of you will say that Shaco's "playstyle" is AD Assassin, jump in and one shot. And yes, you are correct, but that's because Riot has nurtured Shaco into that. Every little thing they've done to Shaco has taken away from the box playstyle and pushed him towards an On Hit Assassin. They added on hit damage to backstab, on hit damage to Deceive (Shaco's Q), Changed E from Magic damage to Physical damage. This is the toxic playstyle that everyone hates to play against. Why would you want to argue for more players to play this playstyle? AP Shaco was a unique and intricate way to play Shaco because your playstyle would evolve depending on what your opponent would do or how they would play. And it was always easily counterable, don't chase shaco into his boxes, then he won't have the damage to kill you. But now, with anyone able to /purchase/ a free item, it just devolves the playstyle into nothing.

Riot's explanation of why this is how Red trinkets works is due to melees needing counterplay to Shaco boxes. Yet, there are countless melees in the game that can one shot boxes at level 9, usually the time an enemy will be buying a red trinket. Red trinket makes the Shaco matchup a complete joke because now boxes lose their fear effect and can be one shot. Any meta champion makes a joke out of Shaco boxes once scanned. Here are a couple of examples, Renekton One shots boxes with furried Q, Irelia can Q hops to any visible boxes once her Q is lvl 5, killing each box in one shot. Jax's counterstrike dodges box autos, then stuns them. Aatrox out ranges and one shot's boxes before level 9 due to mass amounts of aoe. Viktor is a ranged champion, so boxes don't effect him much anyway. My point is there are many ways to counter Shaco boxes that don't just make them a worthless ability. Without red trinket, I have a chance to fight back against other champions. The box fear is a main factor of the AP Shaco playstyle, but without it, you're forced to play AP Shaco as an inferior AP on hit Assassin.

My suggestion would to make red trinket have the same effect on boxes that pink wards used to have on them. Give vision of the boxes for Ranged champions to clear, or for lower IQ players to run into. Adding to this, in lane, minions aggro boxes as if they were minions to attack. So if they are revealed, minions will walk into them and activate the boxes. Many of you will probably complain, not wanting a "buff" to AD shaco, but this wouldn't be a buff to AD Shaco. Very few, if any, AD Shaco players will gain any benefit from a change to red trinket. Wrapping this up, this playstyle is supposed to counter stupidity and greediness. Red trinket is just a cheat sheet for the IQ test that are Shaco boxes.

Thank you for your time reading. Much love.

Let's see 53% win rate in plat and 56% win rate in diamond over the past month. Cry me a river. Shaco mains truly are the cancer of LOL. And the fact that this post has almost 100 upvotes speakes volumes about this community. They won't stop b*tching until their champ has ZERO counterplay (oh wait he already does basically) and 100% win rate in every elo.

http://na.op.gg/statistics/champion/

Imbetterthanmoe2 votes

{quoted}

Let's see 53% win rate in plat and 56% win rate in diamond over the past month. Cry me a river. Shaco mains truly are the cancer of LOL. And the fact that this post has almost 100 upvotes speakes volumes about this community. They won't stop b*tching until their champ has ZERO counterplay (oh wait he already does basically) and 100% win rate in every elo.

http://na.op.gg/statistics/champion/

From what I read he's not complaining that Shaco as a whole is weak he's only talking about ap Shaco, which no one plays. Those winrates would be pretty much 80% ad Shaco, AP Shaco is a lot weaker and this change really would not ruin anyone's game, all you do is walk around the boxes maybe ping it and then let them die in a minute.

"They won't stop b*tching until their champ has ZERO counterplay (oh wait he already does basically) and 100% win rate in every elo." It really just seems like a bunch of silver players crying about shaco being too op because they dont know how to play around him in the 1 out of 30 games you see him in.

Cloud2731 votes

{quoted}

From what I read he's not complaining that Shaco as a whole is weak he's only talking about ap Shaco, which no one plays. Those winrates would be pretty much 80% ad Shaco, AP Shaco is a lot weaker and this change really would not ruin anyone's game, all you do is walk around the boxes maybe ping it and then let them die in a minute.

"They won't stop b*tching until their champ has ZERO counterplay (oh wait he already does basically) and 100% win rate in every elo." It really just seems like a bunch of silver players crying about shaco being too op because they dont know how to play around him in the 1 out of 30 games you see him in.

I'm not talking about just AP Shaco. I'm talking about Shaco IN GENERAL. I don't care how weak AP Shaco is. I only care how strong Shaco is. BTW making fun of silver players isn't proving your point, but I should expect no less from you considering how toxic this community is.

Imbetterthanmoe1 votes

{quoted}

I'm not talking about just AP Shaco. I'm talking about Shaco IN GENERAL. I don't care how weak AP Shaco is. I only care how strong Shaco is. BTW making fun of silver players isn't proving your point, but I should expect no less from you considering how toxic this community is.

Dude this thread is literally to make AP Shaco viable, this change will barely affect AD shaco. Did you even read the post or are you just making conclusions with no evidence? Also i will talk about silver players this way because they and other low elo players are the majority of people complaining about shaco.

Cloud2731 votes

{quoted}

Dude this thread is literally to make AP Shaco viable, this change will barely affect AD shaco. Did you even read the post or are you just making conclusions with no evidence? Also i will talk about silver players this way because they and other low elo players are the majority of people complaining about shaco.

Dude I don't really care. Balance is more important than special interest groups like you AP Shaco players. And the OP even admits that Shaco has little to no counterplay, and he's asking for buffs. Sorry I don't support this at all, and neither should any sane person.

Imbetterthanmoe7 votes

{quoted}

Dude I don't really care. Balance is more important than special interest groups like you AP Shaco players. And the OP even admits that Shaco has little to no counterplay, and he's asking for buffs. Sorry I don't support this at all, and neither should any sane person.

Are you mentally unstable? Are you able to read? AP Shaco is terrible, Pinkward comes and asks for a buff that seems reasonable that wouldnt affect AD Shaco and wouldnt even make a massive difference to AP Shaco. Now please look over what i just said atleast 5 times so you can fit it into your head.

Also i have a question for you. Do you even know what the change being asked for is? Because its not that big of a change.

Cloud2731 votes

{quoted}

Are you mentally unstable? Are you able to read? AP Shaco is terrible, Pinkward comes and asks for a buff that seems reasonable that wouldnt affect AD Shaco and wouldnt even make a massive difference to AP Shaco. Now please look over what i just said atleast 5 times so you can fit it into your head.

Also i have a question for you. Do you even know what the change being asked for is? Because its not that big of a change.

You're asking for a buff to an ability that has almost no counterplay. Shaco can place these stealth traps while stealthed ffs. Thanks for flaming and calling me "mentally unstable" though. LOL community showing its true colors here.

Imbetterthanmoe1 votes

{quoted}

You're asking for a buff to an ability that has almost no counterplay. Shaco can place these stealth traps while stealthed ffs. Thanks for flaming and calling me "mentally unstable" though. LOL community showing its true colors here.

The buff does little to nothing, all it does is make it so oracle doesnt destroy it. This buff wont affect your points at all "You're asking for a buff to an ability that has almost no counterplay. Shaco can place these stealth traps while stealthed ffs." The oracle activates it so the buff wont change the fact that if ap shaco comes behind you with itwhile stealthed it will still attack you. So can you please for the good of this earth and league of legends please read through and understand what the facts are before posting your biased comments

Cloud2731 votes

{quoted}

The buff does little to nothing, all it does is make it so oracle doesnt destroy it. This buff wont affect your points at all "You're asking for a buff to an ability that has almost no counterplay. Shaco can place these stealth traps while stealthed ffs." The oracle activates it so the buff wont change the fact that if ap shaco comes behind you with itwhile stealthed it will still attack you. So can you please for the good of this earth and league of legends please read through and understand what the facts are before posting your biased comments

You really need to just stop talking. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. If oracles didn't activate the traps that would be a buff to ALL VARIATIONS OF SHACO. Don't pretend that this is only a buff to AP Shaco, cuz you and I both know that's bullsh*t.

Imbetterthanmoe1 votes

{quoted}

WTF are you talking about? Of course it affects my points. It's a straight up buff and you know it.

WHat i have gathered from your points are:

This buff is broken, AP Shaco is broken, SHaco is broken, Shaco is the most and best played champ in the game, and that everyone whines about their champ

The buff isnt even a buff, it simply makes it so it doesnt actiuvate and destroy shaco's boxes, if riot were to add this to the game right now i 100% can telly you that barely anyone would even notice the change. Please stop whining about every little change to the game and saying its too overpowered, look at it from a different perspective reevaluate your points.

Cloud2731 votes

{quoted}

WHat i have gathered from your points are:

This buff is broken, AP Shaco is broken, SHaco is broken, Shaco is the most and best played champ in the game, and that everyone whines about their champ

The buff isnt even a buff, it simply makes it so it doesnt actiuvate and destroy shaco's boxes, if riot were to add this to the game right now i 100% can telly you that barely anyone would even notice the change. Please stop whining about every little change to the game and saying its too overpowered, look at it from a different perspective reevaluate your points.

That's a buff dude. How do you not understand this? And now I'm whining apparently? Thanks for flaming me once again.

Imbetterthanmoe1 votes

{quoted}

That's a buff dude. How do you not understand this? And now I'm whining apparently? Thanks for flaming me once again.

I would like for you to take me step by step and explain how this change would affect you when fighting a shaco, please dont just say its a buff, please explain by using in-game knowledge of how it would strongly affect you

Imbetterthanmoe1 votes

{quoted}

That's a buff dude. How do you not understand this? And now I'm whining apparently? Thanks for flaming me once again.

Its funny how you gave up since you know you lost the argument 100 times over

Cloud2731 votes

{quoted}

Its funny how you gave up since you know you lost the argument 100 times over

No I never gave up. There's nothing more to be said. You're asking for a straight up buff to not only AP Shaco but Shaco in general. And buffing a champ with a 53%+ winrate in every division makes zero sense.

Imbetterthanmoe1 votes

{quoted}

No I never gave up. There's nothing more to be said. You're asking for a straight up buff to not only AP Shaco but Shaco in general. And buffing a champ with a 53%+ winrate in every division makes zero sense.

Your ignoring what i said before "please explain by using in-game knowledge of how it would strongly affect you"

Imbetterthanmoe1 votes

{quoted}

No I never gave up. There's nothing more to be said. You're asking for a straight up buff to not only AP Shaco but Shaco in general. And buffing a champ with a 53%+ winrate in every division makes zero sense.

and you left again trying to dodge the question

More from Gameplay