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So, Let's look at Sivir's W, Riccochet...

PyroAeroVampire·7/3/2016, 10:25:58 AM·5 votes·1,934 views

I'm confused as to what Sivir's W, Ricochet, actually is. Let me explain that.

> Sivir's next 3 basic attacks bounce to nearby targets, dealing 100% Attack Damage physical damage to the first target and 60/65/70/75/80% Attack Damage physical damage to each subsequent target.If a given Ricochet attack critically strikes its first target, all subsequent bounces from that attack will also critically strike.Targets cannot be hit more than once by a given Ricochet attack and on-hit effects are applied only to the first target of each attack.

Now, here's where I'm somewhat confused, but let me add some context.

I was screwing around in a custom game with my friends and decided to play AP Sivir, just for fun. I went into game with my generic Poke Mage masteries, not realizing I had DeathFire Touch. Upon walking to lane, I realized how awesome Sivir would be if her W Ricochets applied DeathFire. I hit level 2, leveled Ricochet and.....

Nothing.

It didn't apply any On-Spell effects. Not Rylai's, not Liandry's, not Luden's. None of them. It felt extremely anti-climactic. This led me to my current question:

What exactly are Sivir's Ricochets?

They aren't basic attacks themselves, as they don't apply on-hit effects. In experimentation, her W isn't an On-Hit effect, as Guinsoo's at max stacks won't throw two Ricochet's at once. It isn't considered an ability either, as it doesn't apply On-Spell effects, as stated before.

It's very anticlimactic as a Sivir player to not know what her W is classified as. It feels like the bounces should be an ability. It looks like it too, but they aren't, so I'm extremely confused as to what it actually is.

Also, I learned that it doesn't add a stack of Fervor of Battle or act as a hit for Thunderlord's Decree.

I guess I just have to sit here and dream about how awesome it would be if Sivir's Ricochets applied DFT and how her builds would evolve with that. If only, if only...

4 Comments

Thévenin7/3/2016, 12:21:03 PM2 votes

Her W isn't counted as a basic attack because then it would apply on-hits and it isn't counted as a spell because then it would apply spell effects. Sivir's W has theoretically INFINITE bounces and its damage output per one AA in a teamfight is absurd. I've 3 shot an enemy adc by attacking their front line and w crits kill them in the back line. Sivir W is incredibly broken, and Riot doesn't want to have to balance it around spell effects/on-hits. The only things that make ricochet better are arpen, AD, crit chance, CDR, and AS (faster unload for lower reaction time), if you are looking to make that scale, but that happens to be the standard Sivir build anyway.

Sneakyy XD7/3/2016, 11:36:31 AM1 votes

It's an on-attack effect. The bounces are probably on-hit effects but I'm not entirely sure. It would depend on how her W interacts with blind, dodge, and block, which I can't research or test right now.

Miraweave7/3/2016, 12:27:39 PM1 votes

It falls into the category that isn't affected by modifiers to spells or basic attacks. Most of the things in that category are on-hits themselves so it wouldn't make sense for them to apply on-hits, and riot doesn't want them applying spell effects. Stuff like Teemo's E falls into this category. The other major part of it are pets like Elise's spiderlings.

I think the only other ability that doesn't apply onhits or spell effects but isn't an onhit or pet is Lulu's passive.