Boards be like : Tanks are useless

French Courtesan·9/9/2018, 4:26:03 PM·8 votes·4,290 views

LCS be like 5 tanks 4 anti tanks and 1 anti engage champion. Looking real weak right here.

And yeah I do realize that LCS is not quite solo que... Up till like Diamond 3. Because the lower your elo the more unorganized the teams really are. And thats where tanks can really feel weak. So yeah I get that majority of player base wont even sniff the stench of Diamond 3 but let me ask you this, if you are truly competitive player, not some cry baby, do you really want to stay in your low elo for ever? Do you really want to boast about your gold 3 skills? If so, stop complaining about champion class that is designed for organized play being weak in low tier unorganized solo que. But if you want to rise up and be better than 99.9% of players, why dont you want actually balanced game? Where you can actually play any class you want instead of being forced to play tanks or anti tanks? There even is alternative for players that enjoy fully organized team play. Its called thrash... no sorry I mean flex que. There you can truly enjoy your 3 tanks 1 adc 1 anti tank teams. And leave solo players play solo champions in fucking peace.

70 Comments

Fízz v29/9/2018, 4:48:32 PM16 votes

its not really that tanks are useless, the "problem" is that armor doesnt do a lot past ~15 minutes with conqueror, armor pen etc. in the game.

some tanks are still good because of their cc

Death by Glamour9/9/2018, 5:24:49 PM8 votes

BOARDS BE LIKE

LETS COMPARE YOLOQ TO LCS

Rexxiee9/9/2018, 4:40:31 PM5 votes

Tanks are overpowered again right now, specially sion (54% wr 10% pick rate).

Grasp + tonic + biscuit + corrupting pot means you cant force them out of lane and they just grasp you over and over and auto win lane that way, then they scale into team fight monsters.

woodvsmurph9/9/2018, 6:27:13 PM4 votes

Jax item 3078 item 3748 item 3053 item 3153 item 3124 Darius item 3078 item 3053 item 3143 item 3075 item 3065

These 2 champions with such builds should not feel nearly equally durable. Why? While hp might be relatively close... say about 600 more for darius, darius has resistances. Sure jax can get a bit when he ults, but not nearly the same effect as darius should be getting in raw numbers nor special effects (crit reduction, healing reduction to enemies, attack speed slow). Yet even if jax doesn't pop R he probably feels about as tanky because resistances - which tank items were converted to EMPHASIZE during tank rework btw rather than emphasize their hp values - are largely meaningless. Really beyond one armor item to not feel like you are paper, the armor itself feels like it does nothing even though that's a huge chunk of many items' apparent value. Triforce sterak gp can feel as tanky as darius with triforce and randuin why? Why does renekton even at master and challenger elo not build armor items to enable their team since being tanky is so op, but instead go full damage or ad+hp bruiser items? Because ad+hp is stronger on him than converting one of those ad+hp items into resistance+hp due to the low value such resistance items give from the resistances portion.

Sorry but adc's with 3 crit items and no armor pen shouldn't be ~~damaging ~~ making a dent in opponents with multiple armor items like randuin, thornmail, frozen heart, etc. Same for ad assassins with only say ghostblade and duskblade for armor pen because that armor reduction is pathetic compared to the amount of armor you have from 2 armor items or more. You know adc's used to mostly go pd, bt, and then something like ga if snowballing or last whisper to deal with tanks' midgame armor. The ones who didn't had built in armor shred or %hp damage as true or magic damage to kind of make up for not getting early last whisper (kog, vayne specifically). But rather than reward logic and force builds that make sense if you want to deal with specific opponents the game in recent years has rewarded full greed - and not just from adc's... toplane bruisers, fighters, tanks, midlaners etc. too. And that's how you end up with full squishy triple crit adc's wondering why assassins are allowed to 1-shot them and nuking tanks despite having no armor pen when armor is specifically supposed to punish people with no armor pen who deal physical damage. That's how you end up with master yi funnel comps and Chinese boosting strats. That's how you end up with riven's and fiora's last year rushing death's dance instead of a cleaver or sometimes triforce (in fiora's case) for a bit of durability vs a renekton and crying until game designers reward them for their stupidity in thinking they should be able to deal with the burst of an early game lane bully without having to build any durability. Which is as logical as a renekton going... it's not fair jax and fiora have more dps than me mid/late game... give me buffs so I can duel them and go even at full build w/o any outplay involved... and then Riot for some reason actually doing that. That is literally how dumb some of the stuff is the way it has changed over the years... and people wonder why the game has felt so out of whack and unbalanced. Hmm... maybe because we're giving some stuff way too much power past the point it should be useful or when it's supposed to be at it's weakest and easily abused. Maybe because we're rewarding stupid builds and letting them be good against everything even if it's not a build that should be effective against an opponent's build because... we don't want them to feel bad going this new build in this certain order - even though it should be largely useless at certain points of the game vs specific opponents with certain other builds. Yeah, that might explain things.

But then again... what does a lowly gold know? Not like I predicted on-hit jg method a month before genius Koreans discovered it and NA "stole" it from them. Not like I knew when reworked galio would and would not be busted or that camille would be an off-meta support pick for awhile when she was new BEFORE she was played in Korea or NA. Not like I innovated morgana support a full year before NA pro's found her a new home when she'd been largely considered an unplayable or bot tier champ. And then went on to innovate naut support when people were still on the morg support hype train and beat the pro's to naut support by months. Or any of dozens of other correct predictions and innovations not based off luck but based off logic and critical thinking/theorizing. So yeah... just a lowly gold here talking - give my words weight accordingly lol.

SociaI Justice9/9/2018, 5:35:15 PM3 votes

And yeah I do realize that LCS is not quite solo que... Up till like Diamond 3.

oh yeah, you're right, look at all the tank mains at the top of challenger ladder ... oh wait.

ModKnightsKemplar9/9/2018, 7:39:29 PM3 votes

Diamond 3 and up is currently 0.16% of the playerbase (less than 3,000 people).

Everyone can't be good, but everyone being able to have fun is imperative to the future of this game. If all the players leave, Riot can't develop for those of you that are really good.

That's just part of the deal.

MrFawknSunshine9/9/2018, 7:02:54 PM2 votes

lets take a look at the tanks stats in diamond + elo

Alistar 52.60 % win rate, 14.16 % pick rate 11.38% ban rate Amumu 51.00% win rate 2.3% pick rate 0.3% ban rate Braum 50.90% win rate 11.5% pick rate 5.0% ban rate Chogath 49.9% win rate 4.6% pick rate 1.1% ban rate Galio 48.6% win rate 3.0% pick rate 0.4% ban rate Ivern 54.7% win rate 1.1% pick rate 0.2% ban rate JarvanIV 50.5% win rate 6.2% pick rate 0.5% pick rate Leona 53.0% win rate 7.0% pick rate 2.6% ban rate Malphite 51.3% win rate 5.7% pick rate 1.2% ban rate Maokai 51.8% win rate 2.6% pick rate 0.1% ban rate Nautilus 50.7% win rate 3.1% win rate 0.1% ban rate Nunu 47.2% win rate 7.9% pick rate 17.2% ban rate Ornn 47.1% win rate 3.1% pick rate 0.4% ban rate Poppy 51.0% win rate 8.4% pick rate 3.3% ban rate Rammus 54.2% win rate 4.3% pick rate 4.2 % ban rate Sejuani 47.1% win rate 2.5% pick rate 0.2% ban rate Shen 49.0% win rate 6.6% pick rate 0.4% ban rate Sion 54.1% win rate 8.6% pick rate 1.6% ban rate TahmKench 48.8% win rate 3.9% pick rate 1.6% ban rate Taric 53.5% win rate 2.6% pick rate 0.3% ban rate Zac 49.2% win rate 2.4% pick rate 0.5% ban rate

out of all these tanks only 3-4 of them are picked with a regular basis while having a good win rate or at least 5% ban rate.

so if the class wasnt underpowered and other classes werent out classing them then why do these win rates, pick rates and ban rates exist?

MrFawknSunshine9/10/2018, 12:14:47 AM2 votes

im going to go look at top 10 picked champs in diamond + elo in each role and see how many tanks we have:

TOP: Irelia 13% pick rate 28.9% ban rate , Jax 12.6% 2 pick rate 23.4% ban rate, Darius 9.1% pick rate 34.1% ban rate , GP 8.7% pick rate 8.4% ban rate Riven 8.4% pick rate 2.7% ban rate Sion 7.6 % pick rate 1.6% ban rate Fiora 7.3 % pick rate 8.1% ban rate Camille 6.8% pick rate 25.9% ban rate Garen 6.4% pick rate 10.2 ban rate Urgot 6.2% pick rate 2.2% ban rate JUNGLE: Lee 20.8% pick rate 7.4% ban rate Graves 20.4% pick rate 30.1% ban rate Camille 10.0% pick rate 24.9% ban rate Gragas 9.5% pick rate 2.3% ban rate Xin 9.1% pick rate 7.5% ban rate Kayn 8.4 % pick rate 4.3% ban rate Kha 8.0% pick rate 4.6% ban rate Nid 7.5% pick rate 3.7% ban rate Eve 7.2 pick rate 42.0% ban rate MID: Kass 12.9% pick rate 23.2% ban rate Ahri 11.8% pick rate 6.9% ban rate LB 11.4% pick rate 27.5% ban rate Yasuo 10.10% pick rate 52.3% ban rate Zed 9.10% pick rate 35.5% ban rate Oriana 8.5% pick rate 0.8 % ban rate TF 8.4% pick rate 3.7% ban rate Ryze 7.6% pick rate 2.9% ban rate Irelia 7.5% pick rate 28.9% ban rate Fizz 6.4% pick rate 14.5% ban rate ADC: lets just say no tanks are played here SUPPORT: Thresh 21.4% pick rate 4.3% ban rate Nami 18.4% pick rate 4.3% ban rate Pyke 14.9% pick rate 28.2% ban rate Alistar 14.0% pick rate 11.4% ban rate Braum 11.4% pick rate 5% ban rate Morg 11.4% pick rate 39.6% ban rate Rakan 10.8% pick rate 7.7% ban rate Lulu 9.2% pick rate 5.6% ban rate Soraka 8.0% pick rate 2.3% ban rate Janna 7.5% pick rate 1.0% ban rate

ok so 10 champs from each role lets see how many are tanks: Sion, Alistar, Braum . thats 3 you could argue 4 if you wanna count Gragas as a tank in jungle.

to 50 pick % champ with their ban rates in 5 roles only 3 tanks picked in top 10 in two roles.