Kayn's Shadow Assassin form should have a higher scaling.

fUlBwOlga·7/13/2017, 6:57:47 AM·24 votes·1,809 views

What I understood is Rhaast form is supposed to be a fighter, and Shadow assassin is supposed to be an assassin, which I think is a great idea. the only problem is, his Ult scaling in shadow assassin is horrible. Since Rhaast gives him a healing bonus and max hp % damage, there's no reason to play shadow assassin over rhaast now :/ I really think they should just fix his scalings in shadow assassins, because as of now, I don't see a reason to why I shouldn't just go rhaast every game.

45 Comments

Sire Hippington7/13/2017, 10:17:11 AM6 votes

I think you missed his passive:

Shadow Assassin: Kayn's basic attacks and abilities deal 12% - 44% (based on level) of post-mitigation damage as bonus magic damage, lasting for 3 seconds upon entering in combat with an enemy champion, refreshing after 8 seconds out of combat with them or by using Umbral Trespass.

So he gains a 44% damage amp in the first 3sec and after his ult(IE-Crits hit like a truck with that passive) He scales really hard, it's more his earl-mid that feels lacking as assasin.

However, i find he lacks surviviabillity as shadow assasin, he has not exactly the mobillity tools other assasins posses to avoid focus. So either an increased scaleing on his E heal or higher Q range might help. It also still feels like his E is somewhat buggy, which makes it hard to use the boost he gains on it in assasin form.

PrinceOfStorms7/13/2017, 7:56:33 AM5 votes

I'd also say that Shadow Assassin form should increase the range of his Q rather than extend the duration on his E.

AHeroNamedHawke7/13/2017, 8:00:07 AM3 votes

One of the largest problems I saw even before release is his passive

It benefits the most from attack speed, which isn't really a stat you want on an assassin if you aren't Yi

That and it's calculated post-mitigation, meaning it gets reduced by both their armor and MR

Jeanne fan club7/13/2017, 9:24:23 AM1 votes

I've played a bit of both recently, with great success with both forms so far. It feels like Red Kayne was balanced around building items like black cleaver, titanic hydra and other bruiser items, while blue kayne was balanced around full leathality.

I have had absolutely no problem assassinating champions with nothing more than W and Q in shadow form. At first I didn't think that Blue kayne was that good, but then I started running full leathality and changing my playstyle, and I have to say, he does IMMENSE DAMAGE. You really just need to go into a game knowing exactly which kayne you are going to play as, then pick a rune and mastery setup that corresponds to that, as well as a build. Kayne is just bad in blind pick but amazing in draft for that very reason

Blue Kayne: item 1412 item 3009 item 3147 item 3814 item 3142 item 3033

Red Kayne item 1412 item 3111 item 3071 item 3748 item 3075 item 3065

Here try these builds for Kayne, I find they work VERY well.

For masteries you want to typically run 18 / 0 / 12. Warriors Bloodlust is Extremely good for both jungling and top lane regardless of who you are playing ( I run it on my shen too for extra sustain and dueling potential ( I do this in Plat 1 btw so you can take my word for how good that keystone is)) Fervor isn't that good of an option on Blue kayne because the overwhelming majority of your damage comes from your abilities.

For blue kayne you need to take advantage of the fact that you can cast W while inside of walls, always do your W Q combo for an initiation and make sure you hit BOTH THE DASH AND SLASH on your Q

Sun Wu Ryuumoku7/13/2017, 10:33:57 AM1 votes

rushing this item 3071 instead lethality when u have item 3147 & item 3142 as option is a mistake.

Escheton7/13/2017, 11:36:36 AM1 votes

Isn't Blue Kayn supposed to build item 3078 ? Because of how it interacts with passive?

Targon7/13/2017, 3:52:48 PM1 votes

Personally I don't feel that Kayn's Shadow Assassin is weak. Shadow Assassin seems somewhat balanced in terms of his overall damage output. It's just Kayn's Darkin form is probably too strong and should be looked at instead.

AirKingNeo7/13/2017, 5:49:03 PM1 votes

His Q needs to be 150% AD ratio and slightly higher base damage on his base form and assassin form.

khorney7/13/2017, 5:57:47 PM1 votes

your missing the fact that your ult resets your bonus damage so your wrong

Cryo007/13/2017, 9:55:51 PM1 votes

I honestly wouldn't mind if they shifted some of the damage from the bruiser form into the assassin form, and gave the bruiser form more sustain.

The Leo Cat7/13/2017, 7:02:02 AM1 votes

Why the fuck does the bruiser form give him Max% HP damage?

Darius Strada7/13/2017, 9:58:21 PM1 votes

Kayn - Fighter Shadow Assassin - Assassin (duh!) Rhaast - Tank

The Leo Cat7/13/2017, 7:06:02 AM1 votes

Ah... ok.

crzymdscntst7/13/2017, 9:04:47 AM1 votes

The first thing I noticed when I tried him was: "Aren't these cooldowns awfully high on his skills?" (Q is 7/6.5/6/5.5/5, W is 13/12/11/10/9, E is 21/19/17/15/13 and R is 120/100/80) Even late game, a couple of these, despite what it would mean for them to be shorter, are pretty high. Meaning he almost has to build CDR no matter his form. (The cooldowns are balanced around the effect, Q being a slight hop, W being a large AoE slow, E being a heal and wall crawl, R being his ultimate. So I'm not saying they don't make sense for what they are, only that overall he doesn't have his skill overall cooldown going for him in regards to his SA form.)

Then came the mana costs. He wipes his pool quick since he relies heavily on skills.

Then I noticed that he doesn't actually have a passive until he form changes, meaning his early-game "assassinations" aren't going to go off without a hitch, because he doesn't have the dps or the survivability for it innately. The thing he has going for him in SA form is mobility. There should be something to how he plays as a SA that makes him that backline killer other than placement changer via his E. (He can theoretically duck into a wall and just walk around to their backline since walls are not stopping him.)

His build suggestion also is a big hiccup. It suggests Rhaast-durability AD items if you are laning and SA if you are in the jungle. The suggested build changes when you form change too, so new players are going to be scratching their heads trying to get a grasp of what to build.

And back to his Passive as mentioned in other posts... magic damage is really a hiccup for him. It's really not doing him any favors in SA form. The only thing I can think to salvage it's overall effect is to make it true damage, even if that meant lowering the %... but that also shifts players into that tank-killing thing the other form wants to be. It's just difficult to really say what would even be better since he's such a new champ. Late game full build in Practice Tool, I was at 44% conversion. His skills didn't seem to convert the dps typing either or something was up.

Something is hinky about the design that feels like Rhaast was the balance point and SA was an afterthought.

What he does do well on the other hand: Waveclear. :| That's all I really got. Maybe make his R let him hop further out of an enemy when you ulti them in SA form. Give him an escape since he probably just all-in'd it and is squish.