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Riot did not learn anything from S7 for the support role.

Nymzo·1/10/2018, 12:45:46 AM·106 votes·4,135 views

I don't know what to say, I am... speechless.

Here's the quote from ItsLowbo, a system designer in the sighstone changes thread:

One thing we’ve learned from Ardent Censer over the summer is that Support players greatly appreciated the ability to rush impactful items - they were able to feel like a bigger participant in the game. We’ve also learned that the game still functions well without a Sightstone rush - in other words, the game doesn’t break down from a lack of early vision.

No Riot, you did not learn ANYTHING at all. You act like the whole Ardent fiasco was a good thing? Don't make me laugh please, we could play a goddamn drinking game with the amount of the time the caster said ''Ardent Censer'' at Worlds.

No Riot, we did not rush Ardent because we wanted to ''be a bigger participant in the game''. We rushed Ardent because IT WAS THE ONLY THING THAT WE COULD DO. If you didn't have Ardent, bot lane (and also the game) was already over.

For fuck sake Riot, you had one season, one season with two different meta support items to learn from your mistakes: first item 3107 and item 3190 then the new champion, victorious item 3504. Yet you somehow managed to intepret something completely different? Are you all secretely LeeSin?

As for the sighstone changes, all you are going to do is make us even more vulnerable to ganking junglers, that's it. Or and, you will delete 3 actually FUN supports items to use.

Thanks Riot.

Edit 4: I want to correct my previous statement and also the beginning.

What make me the most mad is that Riot intepreted something entirely different of what actually happen.

My biggest question is how they did even manage to come up with this intepretation. NO ONE enjoyed that meta for what I learn, there was no strategy involved. It was just... pure chaos and madness so I don't get it.

I still wish to keep this thread has nice as possible though.

Edit 2: I actually got reminded of something else that I wanted to discuss.

It would be really nice if Riot would stop ''buffing'' the role with their little experiments to make it popular. The role is fine as it is for those who main it and you shouldn't do changes for the sake of autofills.

Right now, we are about to lose the quests of the support items because all three items are being abused by other lanes. And I don't think by killing two birds with one stone is not the way when one bird wasn't the problem.

Edit 3: It looks Scara also seems to fine that statement weird.

https://youtu.be/XmwAsIjlHMw?t=27m57s

103 Comments

Dorans Pants1/10/2018, 8:42:03 AM20 votes

riots line of thinking:

item 3504 uninteractive, stat-stick-item that was only popular because of how broken it was -----> great design

item 3069 item 3092 item 3401+(quests) actually good items that gave a new dynamic to the game and the support role (maybe needed a few tweaks, but nothing world threatening) ----> nah better remove that

and this:

"One thing we’ve learned from Ardent Censer over the summer is that Support players greatly appreciated the ability to rush impactful items - they were able to feel like a bigger participant in the game. We’ve also learned that the game still functions well without a Sightstone rush - in other words, the game doesn’t break down from a lack of early vision."

this is just insulting and shows that they have no clue what players want, why they do certain things and how their own game works.

z63XnLCMwX1/10/2018, 12:55:01 AM17 votes

They claim their balance team to be diamond and up. [slayer-jinx-wink]

Athenes Lulu1/10/2018, 6:21:39 AM12 votes

Hold up, don't forget another important point:

We’ve also learned that the game still functions well without a Sightstone rush - in other words, the game doesn’t break down from a lack of early vision.

The junglers during Ardent meta were farm junglers or champs who don't rely on ganks just to get ahead. Not only that, since botlane was a pure farmfest of whoever rushes Ardent first, there's no need for ganks or snowball, so junglers don't even have to bother going botlane. Because of that, there's no need to ward extensively especially with a sightstone.

That line was true only because of a specific meta back in the day, but given today's meta and how junglers and supports have changed, it's bullshit.

ChaddyFantome1/10/2018, 7:27:16 AM10 votes

If riot even dares remove my support quests im quitting this game. Straight up.

That said, while i agree with you, i think you are missing the bigger picture here. The fact of the matter is, Riot buffed Ardent censor to the point of brokeness. No monkey could look at that and not forsee what would happen.

The issue is you make the assumption that they "fucked up" when it is clear as day they did so intentionally as an experiment.

Riot has making the support role more popular as one of if not their highest priorities, and the conclusions they came to are based on that, not based on actual balance side of things

AMYS GRAVE1/10/2018, 5:24:26 AM10 votes

we could play a goddamn drinking game with the amount of the time the caster said ''Ardent Censer'' at Words.

No, No you couldn't. You would literally die of alcohol poisoning.

TotalJerk1/10/2018, 3:18:49 PM8 votes

Way to completely miss the point. They are saying the understand that Ardent was OP, but they noted that people were enjoying being able to rush something that wasn't sightstone, which is ABSOLUTELY TRUE.

NorthernRedStar1/10/2018, 2:39:09 PM8 votes

Ever since season 5, every time Riot tries to force the support role to become "more accessible" and "more attractive", things end up going to shit at bot lane.

It's like telling a support champion's kit is worthless and uninteresting all on its own? That support players can't feel impactful without some big-ass broken utility item influencing the meta? What's wrong with well-designed items like Face of the Mountain that compliment one's kit and offer meaningful usage choices? Is it really such an issue that 'this mid laner doesn't notice Braum shielding him, therefore we feel there's a need to remove this item and replace it with Ardent Censor v2', lmao.

How much do they underestimate support mains?

Wolfeur1/10/2018, 6:27:25 PM7 votes

No Riot, we did not rush Ardent because we wanted to ''be a bigger participant in the game''. We rushed Ardent because IT WAS THE ONLY THING THAT WE COULD DO.

Because rushing Sightstone is definitely not the only thing that we can't do…

I don't mind buying Sightstone, I like warding, but I surely wouldn't mind a world in which I can build Knight's Vow or Redemption sooner.

Sailor Mint1/10/2018, 12:54:05 AM6 votes

Or and, you will delete 3 actually FUN supports items to use.

You talk of optimal play. Yet seem to ignore the fact that building the active versions has been objectively subpar for a very long time.

Either way, Twin Shadows and Shurelya's Reverie will probably get reimplemented.