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New Runes is unbalanced, dmg is too high

Nightmisty··208 votes·10,624 views

I have played a few game already, it is very clear and people who goes full burst, example: duskblade j4, duskblade anything can oneshot or snowball super strong, with the help of new runes, and since we don't have armor and MR as we had before in the old runes, those early burst combo will simply kill you in Sec. I would recommend something to do with everyone's armor or the dmg that runes are providing. just some personal thought also excuse my english plz, not mother language.

94 Comments

Taliyah Rocks21 votes

I find ridiculous to find myself almost dying, or almost killing enemies, at LEVEL ONE..... like.... Leona used to have a power spike at lvl 2... and most champions had their at lvl 3.... but now everyone can kill almost anyone at lvl 1

Mhihnj30 votes

remember Thunderlord's meta where everyone,even the support, ran Thunderlord's?

Blackstone019 votes

You mean League of Thunderlords? I think it came after the League of Warlords when Yasuo and Tryndamere abused the shit out of warlord's healing and attack speed on all crits.

Z3Sleeper1 votes

The PBE "League of Dark Harvest" wasn't too long ago.

Mhihnj1 votes

I was there too, abusing it on shaco

Meep Man1 votes

In Bot I found this common if you were a Duo. Not in Solo lanes though unless some cheese happened like an early gank or Teemo Invis.

Fearless Gamer3 votes

ive been playing mid and its quite the same .-.

Imperial Japan4 votes

[{quoted}](name=My Hands r 2 Big,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9oORsfcI,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-11-09T11:46:35.977+0000)

I find ridiculous to find myself almost dying, or almost killing enemies, at LEVEL ONE..... like.... Leona used to have a power spike at lvl 2... and most champions had their at lvl 3.... but now everyone can kill almost anyone at lvl 1

Got thresh+Jhin auto’d and was half health lvl 1

50000000000000001 votes

I think that happened before the preseason also

Executioner2 votes

Nope, at best it was around 1/4 not half.

Strawberrycocoa1 votes

Funny, I've fought two Jhin/Thresh combos since Reorged hit, and both of them were complete monsters to play against. >_>

RISE Shlack1232 votes

This is because we're used to the old Runes and Masteries setup where we had more armor, health, magic resist etc etc etc at level 1 than we do now. It's a game-changer. Give it time.

Daddy Ants16 votes

More base Armor and MR or more armor and mr per level.

Lethality nerfed.

There you go.

I especially don't like almost solo dieing to an aery Sona's 1 rotation of spells at level 2 because of lack or MR.

{quoted}

i hated it first 10 games now its ok but ur right armor pen is ridiculus right now its gonna have to have a major nerf or just flat out removed since u dont have hardly any early resistances. anyone becomes an assassin if they can build duskblade(again) lol hell even tanks dont feel that tanky and a full lethality build can and will shread them atm.

Lethality is stupid yes.

ADC's/Bruisers actually lost 7% flat armor penetration from the loss of the Battering Blows mastery.

Thryale2 votes

honest question: what's the difference between "lethality" and flat armor pen? they made the change a while back and I don't quite remember it well

mrgiraffeweevil9 votes

Lethality scales with both your level and the enemy's level. It starts out worse than what flat pen used to be, but it scales, and ends up ignoring more armor.

Thryale4 votes

that's just... so clunky...

I mean, I get why they did it that way, but it just feels like a rough hack solution to a larger problem...

Dr Poro1 votes

It's because armor+lvl making arpen less useful as the game goes on, even if your opponent doesn't build any armor. This is to make Arpen more balanced in both early game (making it weaker) and lategame (making it stronger).

kile1474 votes

I feel like a better solution would've been to make lethality be %Base Armor Pen, it would be functionally the same thing but simpler to understand. It would have minimal impact early game against targets with low base armor, would logically scale into late game, and would be countered by building bonus armor.

Dr Poro2 votes

That would also be a good solution. The current version works differently, though, since it's based on your own level rather than your opponent's (which was the first version of lethality). I suppose Riot would have thought about %base armor pen, I don't know why they didn't opt for that, though.

Myrkrvaldyr10 votes

They need to greatly buff every champ's armor and mr. Right now, everything dies too quickly, and turrets now die even faster.

Chaubin1 votes

Better yet, just reduce damage across the board. Buffing champ armor/mr won't solve the turret death issue.

TheReal eLTwiX9 votes

I don't like this new runes, unbalanced. Too bad for starts. If you give one kill to your opponent you cannot win your lane either if you are talented. I want back old runes. That will be good for everybody.

PopcornBunni7 votes

The +9 armor across most champions is a paltry compensation honestly. The old masteries in combination with runes granted a permanent +5% to resistances, Fearless to protect from burst, bonus resistances under your tower, and armor quints.

Characters got compensation for the attack damage reds, and the armor yellows, but got nothing for the missing masteries or quints.

Everyone is out ~13 armor from quints, 8 while under tower, fearless bonus, and the constant 5% bonus.

In exchange, there's an option for 5 armor with conditional +5%, and 130 health exclusive to tanks who are fucked more than any other class by the missing stats.

Compare the current runes to the prior runes+masteries we'll even use a tank to assume the +130 health.

8.5 AD Reds, 11.7 scaling health yellows (>130 at level 12) , 13 Armor quints, 1.5 scaling MR Blues, 50 Health from veteran's scars, +5% armor and Magic resist, +8 resistances under tower, +fearless bonus against burst damage, +5% health OR Shield from hard CC OR sustain health recovery from keystone

-> +8 base AD, +9 base Armor, +130 health, +5 Armor OR MR OR delayed +8 both +5% conditionally to one or both, 5+1% health recovery over 2 seconds conditionally, 6 + 4% missing health recovery over 10 seconds replacing fearless, 20+30% temperary bonus resistances from hard CC IR sustain health recovery from keystone

Tanks lose out on 5 flat armor out of the gate, lose out entirely on MR, lose more than 50 health at level 12 and even more going beyond that, lose tower defending resistances, lose fearless, lose early 5% bonus resistances, and at best get a compensatory replacement for the shield on hard CC. In return? Tanks get 70 bonus health at level 1. WOOOOOO.

That isn't even going into fighters or anyone else that took Resolve secondary who lose out massively more. Now I get this helps AP a bit where Magic damage certainly needed a boon, so I have less qualms for the missing MR, but AD got huge buffs as well while defenses plummeted. The older system allowed for weak characters to find rune combinations to offset their major flaws, the new system's stat distribution is equivalent to those from Masteries, AT BEST. The end result is a loss in any stats gained from Quints and blue runes, as well as the variable armor reds, [scaling] health yellows, and other things like lethality reds to increase the potency of %health damage tanks could make use of.

That said, the new runes are not, entirely at least, a failure, but they're going to result in a much harder balancing act as characters that end up too weak can't have the stat variables to compensate and find the right balance of and are going to need straight base stat buffs leading to more potentially game breaking knob turns. Without the equivalent of 6/18/6 mastery pages, it further restricts the build variety.

Maybe have a "set bonus" selectable for rune pages in addition to the bonus from the main path. For any page that has Resolve as its main path, they could chose from among the defensive stats to gain as a bonus, and their secondary path offers an alternative choice, like adaptive penetration for Domination, or scaling CDR for Sorcery. These numbers could approximate the values of the missing Quints and alternative runes from the old system.

At the bare minimum, give Poppy her missing +7.4 health per level and +5 Armor.

ModCaptainMårvelous7 votes

Other way around:

Not that damage is too high, defense is too low.

DragonShea4 votes

{quoted}

Other way around:

Not that damage is too high, defense is too low.

Indeed. I miss 500HP 70 armor item 3143.

ModCaptainMårvelous5 votes

No not building defensive. It's basically the same/tankier if you're actively building defensive because you can get stuff like conditioning, tough skin or mirror shield or whatever that mastery tree is called.

When you originally made runes, you could often run armor/mr/hp runes because they were just the most generic "safe" runes. Which means you were walking to lane with an extra 9-10 armor/MR than your base. While damage has gone down just a bit due to losing some of the flat % damage and free pen, defense has gone down a LOT more. Only tanks/tanky supports really got compensated for the change.

Troll for Trump1 votes

Pretty sure damage on DPS champs has spiked up (ADCs)

ModCaptainMårvelous2 votes

Hm. Maybe you're right. Press The Attack does give a ton of damage.

Even so, it's true that defensive runes/masteries/etc have gone down.

AirKingNeo7 votes

Lower damage instead of raising defenses. Things like Lethal Tempo needs serious nerfs. Should be 15-50% attack speed, not 30-80%. And that's coming from a Kayle main, in which Kayle is only playable (she sucks otherwise) because Lethal Tempo is broken.

What would Kayle need back to compensate? 5% bonus AS added to her level 1, -1 second CD off her E, maybe +3 base AD (jungling purposes). She lost all of her flat CDR or CDR per level runes, while everyone who uses MR blues was compensated (technically, no magic pen), and also lost 9.3% attack speed (technically 9.3% AS worth of stats) in the 'Rune' Update.

Also, the jungle is horrendously overtunned with the buffs to jungling items. They did not need that. Attack speed junglers needed it, but none of the rest at all.

Ariel the Cruel3 votes

Attack speed junglers needed it, but none of the rest at all.

item 3070 Fiddlesticks item 3070

G00seEggs6 votes

I feel like I am playing an Arcade version of this game. (gotta go fast)

The first game I played was Taric Support with a Vayne ADC. We got 2 kills within the first 4 minutes and the lane was over. If I could land a stun near the wall, his E into the wall already had them dropped to 1/4 health, it was taking 1-2 autos at level 1-3 to get a kill after a stun as I was also playing the explosion dmg from Taric's stun.

Their top lane ran over ours, so we have 2 huge laners in the game. Going into the 20 minute mark but the first 1 vs 1 interaction between their top and our bottom Vayne wasn't even a contest. Vayne 3 shot a 3300hp Cho.

Vayne by the 27 minute mark Vayne had IE, Shiv, Rage and AS Boots.

Baron died in under 10 seconds with just a Vayne & Taric (using Ard Sen as well). Worst part, walked away 100% health.

Even more so, ARAM is suppose to be a fun gametype. Now it comes down to who has the most CC wins. If you get stunned even once at any level it's more than like a death with all the "impaired" damaged added.

ARAM has even lost it's fun appeal, unless you are on the side that gets 2-5 stuns.

May put this game to bed for awhile, I have not had any fun in the last two days. I enjoyed the horrible grind at the end of the season compared to this craziness.

My last 11 games: Based on how quickly a game got out of hand: 5 ended in a forfeit before 20 minutes, (one entire team agreed) 1 ended in a forfeit at 21 minutes, (1 guy want to play a 21/2 game)

The longest (2) games were 30-31mins - ONLY because the other team didn't to end the game as they had plenty of moments to do so.

Siyther5 votes

i hated it first 10 games now its ok but ur right armor pen is ridiculus right now its gonna have to have a major nerf or just flat out removed since u dont have hardly any early resistances. anyone becomes an assassin if they can build duskblade(again) lol hell even tanks dont feel that tanky and a full lethality build can and will shread them atm.

EchoZeero5 votes

Haven't had such a streak of fast loss/wins ever, most games end around 20 mins, some even before that. One champ with 3 kills will skew the game horribly and it's GG.

feed to victory3 votes

Look to keep all I have to say in one post.. Why did this new rune system come through honestly? Yes, sure, new season, something new... But to be honest, the old system was way more personalizable and in general better and more interesting. Atleast you had the full power to design how you wanted to play with your runes and masteries, now it's way more limited and you can barely experiment without missing out on a bunch of important stuff.

I just cant seem to understand why they replaced a perfect runes and masteries system for a shitty only runes system that's way less customizable (and made the whole game worse in my opinion). I've played more then 10 games with these new runes and I can't really say I enjoyed experimenting with it, not like I had horrible games and played like shit or anything. It just wasn't a pleasant experience and I must say I liked the old system way more (for shaco I miss the early 10%cdr, for singed I miss the shield after a fling, .... It's not like they're not playable with these new runes, it's just worse then it was before so I really hope they revert it when S8 actually starts)

Castello123 votes

100% True, gameplay is too fast and u cant thing about ur next move that sucks

Dr Poro2 votes

On the bright side, you can actually kill ADCs now.

MataCucañas2 votes

Damage looks definitively too high, playing tanks feels sooooooo bad...

Cosmic Warper2 votes

duskblade + predator or dark harvest is disgusting. I'd be fine with the new runes if duskblade didn't exist for assassins because the combination is such an easy one shot

Daedric Etwahl2 votes

Same here. Happened the other day vs. A predator Hecarim. Level 5 I see a Hecarim burst out of the river and he deals over 300 damage, more than half my health, at level 5, with ONLY his E. He then proceeds to instantly burst out the rest of me before I can actually do anything to react. At level 5.

Like yeah I get that Sona is supposed to be squishy but to this extent is just ridiculous.

PrinceOfStorms1 votes

Just gonna point out that in the example of Hecarim he gets cucked really hard by any CC ever - if he gets CC'd and his stuff times out he does basically no damage. Janna in particular screws him over hard.

DarkRitual2 votes

People need to realize, there's a lot of new stuff, and it's not going to be perfectly balanced right out of the gate. This is why they did this in preseason. They know it's going to take awhile to get things tuned. Remember how long it took the old masteries to get well balanced? It wasn't perfect in a day.

There will be heavy rebalancing of things in the upcoming patches. Riot already planned this as they knew it wouldn't be perfect. Reminder as well: the PBE isn't used to fine tuning, it sometimes catches stuff that's way out of whack.

The new system will be an overall improvement, but it's not balanced yet, and we're just not used to it.

iHeartless2 votes

Played a game where I was adc. Master Yi pressed q and I died. Like yeah sure 3 abilities can 1 shot me but the effect of a single one instantly killing? 0.13 seconds was the time it took to kill me.

XtremeAero4261 votes

Yi main here. Hate how Yi has become very similar to AP Yi. It's all about spamming Q and getting resets and proccing item passives to get one shots. Duskblade, Shiv, etc. Yi was meant to be a skirmisher-assassin hybrid I'm pretty sure but now he's just an assassin. You get fed and one shot everyone w/ Q & one auto or you fall behind and become absolutely useless. I've tried building a mix of defensive and offensive items and it's not working. Viable Yi builds are all pretty much full damage. Lethality & crit items only. Bruiser Yi is in his weakest state right now and it's pretty painful to play.

Inertià2 votes

I think the new runes are ok dmg wise whats unbalanced is the loss of mr from runes especially for adcs, they get totally shrekt by poke champs right now like sona and champs like syndra deletes adcs even easier than before literally just press R. Adc also have very poor defensive mr options they should revert the banshees vail rework so at least adcs can get some defensive mr options.

Karn Bishop1 votes

"don't worry guys new eve will be stronger on runes reforged so no buffs" finishes 3 camps looks to gank and runs into jungle jarvan, oh hi jarv! first blood.

Next game, I am here to gank Miss fort first blood

next game, oh its the support brand he is alone and lowish on mana time to kill hi- first blood.

[zombie-brand-mindblown]

Serika Zero2 votes

i played 4 eve games now as jungle (do note, i suck at jungle). in 3 of them someone went afk, so we lost them all and i got tilted as fuck in the last game, i've got 26 kills (9 deaths) and somehow managed to win.

I didn't feel like the damage is to much tbh, nor did I have problems in the early game (my team dying in 1v1 scenarios over and over again starts to become an usual sight as a jungler). But I liked that I could clear camps easily with her, and also crab, and also gank if the enemy was over extended a bit (couldn't gank bot tho, mostly due to team comps)

Karn Bishop3 votes

Being helpless in 1v1s is what makes her a bad jungler, when your common scenario is you become a non factor so long as the enemy knows he can do it thats a massive problem.

Take any other jungler as an example and even when they are pushed down removed as a deciding factor to a game they still have SOME effect and can use their skills to delay or get the enemy jungler to chase them and use gap closers to just barely be "out of targetting range, and new eve cannot do that which is funny because that was one of old eve's best strengths, heck you could even get leesins to chase you for miles if you did it right.

Also i did not downvote you that was someone else.

rtbf227174641 votes

new runes just ruined the game make it so fast cant even your mechanics ill be out of this for a while hope riot do something

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