Make Rubysightstone increase ward placement count to 4
I want a reason to buy this item, at the moment there isn't one.
I want a reason to buy this item, at the moment there isn't one.
But.... but... the extra HP....
supposed to be a subtle joke. I know.
actually, i kinda like that. I also think it should actually regen some more wards slowly... because like you, i never buy it either and i support pretty often
[{quoted}](name=Denims Wrath666,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9loAbtuF,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-03-27T11:49:24.168+0000)
actually, i kinda like that. I also think it should actually regen some more wards slowly... because like you, i never buy it either and i support pretty often
Having to back because sightstone needs to recharge is annoying when, as a top/mid/adc, I only have to back for items/health. This is what they need to add because having to back for items/health/wards makes the fountain another lane for the support.
Riot has previously stated that the reason the Ruby Sightstone sucks so much (this is something they are aware of) is that they don't want supports to feel like they're forced to spend even more money on a support item that they HAVE to buy.
They're already buying this guy:
plus one of these
and also these
before they can even start buying their own items.
This so much. I don't want to see a ruby sightstone buff because it would mean having to take it earlier (especially something as powerful as a higher ward cap, which would make it a must rush every game). The cheapness of regular sightstone is a great asset to supports, as long as you are allowed to go build something else and finish ruby very late if at all.
If they could find a way to make it better specifically late game, maybe. +10 HP for every ward you have placed in the whole game (whether or not you had ruby when you placed it)? Actually, this could work with the common suggestion of different upgrades for different types of champions: you could also have a +2 AP per ward placed, or other variations for other types of supports. (Numbers subject to change of course, I'm trying to write something that is strong but not ridiculous at 50 wards placed, but IDK if that's actually a realistic number for lategame, because we don't currently even have a wards placed statistic.)
That kind of thing would make it only useful (a) in the late game, (b) to people who have done lots of warding all game; which opens up a space for it to receive some real power without encouraging abuse cases or rushing.
I'm against anything that gives bonus stats for wards placed simply because someone could sit on the fountain and spam them and
exists
Ruby sightstone isn't supposed to be good enough to rush though.
The whole reasoning behind the season 4 vision update where they limited the number of wards on the map was to help fix the issue where if a team is winning, then they automatically win the vision war as well (which meant that they had a huge advantage in objective contesting/jungle teamfights). The winning team can buy more wards, (and more pinks) and end up controlling the whole map because they have the gold to buy that extra vision. By limiting the wards that can be placed at any given time, they reduce snowballing.
Yes please. Or heck, even 5. Because that health is nice, but it doesn't do much in the long-term. Alternatively, give some different build paths for Sightstone, each one giving the extra ward and a different ability (e.g. extra AP, extra MR/Armor, extra mana regen).
Having a couple build paths for Sightstone would be pretty nifty.
Not seeing a use for a multiple-charge Visionstone, since you can only have 1 out, and they stack in your inventory. But what about a Sweeping-stone? Or an Oracle-stone? Or a Sight-stone? So many possibilities, so few items.
I'm seeing a whole set of support vision items, similar to what junglers have for jungle items.
Actually the best solution is to link sightstones into our support gold item much like they did with jungler items. This way you get multiple build paths and upgrades while also not eating up an item slot.
This would be fantastic.
Only problem is, it'd also negate (or compete with) the other support item actives. No matter which support item you build, you always need wards.
What I'd rather see is a further jungle upgrade that gave some stats and a ward-dropping active. That way jgs can help ward without sacrificing an item slot for damage or tank.
Or do that. That's a way better idea.
[{quoted}](name=BLU Medic,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9loAbtuF,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-03-27T11:22:59.529+0000)
Yes please. Or heck, even 5. Because that health is nice, but it doesn't do much in the long-term. Alternatively, give some different build paths for Sightstone, each one giving the extra ward and a different ability (e.g. extra AP, extra MR/Armor, extra mana regen).
They already said they won't do that because the item slot is the price you pay for vision.
Since it's pretty much a required item on supports, why can't they get some extra bonuses like junglers with machete? Why should supports have to pay the price of vision? Everyone else gets a free ward, or two wards for 250 gold at level 9 and junglers have a huge choice of build paths on their required jungling item.
They could give it ward recharges without returning to base, similar to greater stealth totem.
thats basically what i said.
Oops, didn't read through other responses very closely. Upvoted.
what about the fact you can get red trinket instead of yellow?
what about the fact you can get red trinket instead of yellow?
Seriously!
ITT: People who have don't understand GRANTING vision is only half the battle. As a support you should definitely be getting sightstone + red trinket and DENYING vision while granting it. One pink doesn't cut it, bros!
red trinket is overrated now that junglers can smite the bird I dont even bother half the time with sight stone, I stick to upgrading the yellow trinket, or if i do get sight stone I get the pink ward upgrade
plus the jungler smite bird also ALERTS you that wards are nearby you dont even need to have vision or be in range of them, you just need to walk by a bush or a wall with a ward there and your thing goes off prompting you to look around or alerting you theres a ward nearby
whereas the support just blindly guesses/ has to see the enemy place the ward sides vision is A TEAM THING if everyone at level 9 bought the upgraded yellow trinket thats 4 wards on the map every minute 8 wards every two minutes, wards generally last three minutes meaning 8 wards on the map for at least 1 minute and by the time that 1 minute is up you have another ward charge
ITT: People dont understand that due to ward changes supports can only at maximum have 4 wards on the map (3 reg 1 pink) yet they expect the supports to do all the warding
I don't think Ruby Sightstone should provide a higher ward placement cap, though I do think it should recharge on the go (like
).
If Riot did allow
to place more wards, supports would become the "ward whores" of teams again. Right now, there's no excuse for teammates not to upgrade their trinkets and assist with warding. Allowing Sightstone users (primarily supports) to place more wards would bring back the age-old excuse for not warding, "you're the support; you do the warding."
I do think Ruby Sightstone should have more raw stats. Perhaps if it had a
in the recipe, it would be worth keeping in the late game... Currently, supports and occasionally junglers build it— supports have to deal with enemy ADC AD damage, and junglers have to sustain in a physical-damage-based jungle, so both roles would benefit greatly from the armor.
I like the points being made here, as a game designer, I can see why just adding an extra ward might not be the best solution, but the HP buff is simply not enough.
The idea of different build paths also makes a lot of sense, I main support, and I am often in the mind that as a mage support (like Vel or Lux and other "safe" supports) I often consider scrapping sightstone and getting the upgraded yellow. This is only when our team is losing and that last pick choose an AD mid so I am the support AND only ap on the team so I have to build more damage into my kit than utility. Anyway, the point being, that a sightstone upgrade that caters to different types is a smart way to go:
Subtle upgrades could include:
not needing to recharge the ruby sightstone, for those high sustain supports and roamers (like Bard) just staying out and supporting everywhere if that's too much, recharge like the yellow one does.
HP regen plus a little more hp (or even better, armour or MR) for those tanks, struggling to build MR as a tank, against morgana or annie, when Iron locket and merc treads are only viable choices. Support tanks build Armour easy, but MR choices are limited and often quite expensive considering supports make money slowly, especially if you're losing.
Ward upgrade - an additional passive that turns a normal ward into a pink, for those happy with the current sightstone, but don't want to be left behind by the perks other builds are getting
I don't think AP or AD should be added, supports are not meant to be aggressive, and sightstone supports that well. (pun unintended). But speed boost, healing buff (like the opposite of Grievous wounds) and ofc, a grievous affect would be great. Supports with grievous wounds makes sense when trying to help the adc take on champs like Vayne and Kalista, or junglers that have so much lifesteal. That said, there is not real viability for building the current item that provides it, without "losing" support mechanics
But on a separate note, an item that improves healing on others would be cool, there is a self healing buff, and a weakening healing debuff, but nothing that helps low healers like Alista or Taric, buff up their heals with an abstract or diverse build, thoughts?
here's another idea... when you place a ward down, if you toss another ward ontop of that ward it should turn it into a pink ward.
[{quoted}](name=Denims Wrath666,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9loAbtuF,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2015-03-27T16:31:26.681+0000)
here's another idea... when you place a ward down, if you toss another ward ontop of that ward it should turn it into a pink ward.
I thought of that, but I think that's just asking for numerous buggs. in fact, double warding is a common problem in league, when two champs do it at the same time, adding a proximity to ruby Wards that increase overal strength if other wards are nearby would be nice, but I think if this is generally the case all the time, by placing two wards over each other, they become like a weak pink ward (it's not OP because the total vision on the map is still smaller, and if the ward is from a yellow, it won't last very long anyway)
What a lot of people don't realize is just how significant wards are in a game, and that EVERYONE - not just the support - should be buying wards, so upping your number of wards that you can have active at once is a really dangerous addition. Everyone is set to 3 so that one team doesn't get too much vision. As a pretty decent support, I get it, that your team sometimes is awful at warding. In bronze, I have some adc's that don't buy any wards, don't use their ward trinket, I'm putting vision in the river, tribrush, and one of the bushes, and they wonder why they keep getting grabbed by blitz from the bush that I don't have enough wards to put one in. And no one ever seems to want to upgrade their ward trinket either. That's a bunch of free wards that, as long as you keep placing them it's so worth it to buy.
Could you imagine the abuse that higher level players would be able to pull off if they could have 4 wards per character? We'd have a ruby sightstone meta because they see one pro get it and they think it's so op.
Maybe I shouldn't complain... that may actually get people to ward in bronze rather than just rely on the support to do it...
Either way, could throw the balance off in a game.
it wouldnt really be abuse. we would just see a shift back towards the season 2 meta (no ward limit and oracles was a consumable that lasted until you died). instead of 40 minute games, supports can actually snowball through good vision/denial.
yeah, but I could see people with pretty much the whole map revealed.
Let's say support, top, and jungle all take ruby sightstone. That's 12 wards on map at once. Plus six more (3 from mid, 3 from adc), and that's 18 wards. If everyone uses their wards and has the crab wards, there is like... nowhere on the map you can't see. Not to mention oracle's was pretty broke. It's why they removed it... I may be a little biased because I'm anticipating the next patch when we get the Omega Squad skin... but, hey, the community seems split down the middle when it comes to oracle's.
What a lot of people don't realize is just how significant wards are in a game, and that EVERYONE - not just the support - should be buying wards, so upping your number of wards that you can have active at once is a really dangerous addition. Everyone is set to 3 so that one team doesn't get too much vision. As a pretty decent support, I get it, that your team sometimes is awful at warding. In bronze, I have some adc's that don't buy any wards, don't use their ward trinket, I'm putting vision in the river, tribrush, and one of the bushes, and they wonder why they keep getting grabbed by blitz from the bush that I don't have enough wards to put one in. And no one ever seems to want to upgrade their ward trinket either. That's a bunch of free wards that, as long as you keep placing them it's so worth it to buy.
Could you imagine the abuse that higher level players would be able to pull off if they could have 4 wards per character? We'd have a ruby sightstone meta because they see one pro get it and they think it's so op.
Maybe I shouldn't complain... that may actually get people to ward in bronze rather than just rely on the support to do it...
Either way, could throw the balance off in a game.
The problem is that too many people are a bit too stubborn to get that warding is a shared responsibility. Aside from the free yellow trinket, they do nothing to help the support with map awareness. I think the three ward limit just limits the map awareness the support could provide. I like to upgrade my yellow as soon as I can because it can generate two wards on its own. I may not be supporting, but a trinket that regenerates up to two wards is a steal at 250 gold. Another point: how is a sight stone good if there's a trinket that can regenerate wards? There may be less wards on the map, but it is a cheaper option, and it doesn't take up an inventory slot. It seems stupid that the support is supposed to spend 1600 gold when each player could spend 250 and get more wards out of the deal.
As we've established most people don't buy the yellow trinket. Even if they don't, at the beginning, the wards it generates last half as long as the cooldown to place another, and later on your wards last exactly as long as as it takes to make one. I feel like the trinket was designed for non-supports that aren't used to dropping gold on actual wards, a job that it does quite well. It can even be upgraded to drop pink wards if you're the support and you have a sightstone/ruby sightstone. I think the real problem here is the one you mentioned about people being too stubborn to share the responsibility of warding with anyone else.
I think we just need to give more of a motivation for people to actually buy Sightstone.
The first sightstone is quite possibly the best and most cost effective item in the game for supports, there just isn't a reason to upgrade it further
Solution: Keep all stats the same. Raise the cost. Make the wards detect other wards as well.
BAM. A must have support item.
I also think an extra V ward would be nice. It would totally be worth the buy then.
I agree it could use a lil somethin' somethin' but there's a couple reasons to buy it, albeit they're lame reasons. Moar health and slot efficiency.
Ruby Sightstone is pretty much the last item I buy, sometimes even after buying flasks with excess gold.
There actually is a reason though, it's when you have so much gold and you don't know what to spend it on other than potions.
But yes, make it unique too so it's actually worth.
At that point I'd start buying the elixirs