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@Riot, You guys REALLY missed the ball with Taliyah.

I Be Rad·6/20/2016, 4:04:58 AM·2 votes·1,053 views

So I've not been a fan of Taliyah's kit since I've seen it. Seemed very self-defeating. Played a couple of games, still thought so. So then, I really decided to give Taliyah an honest chance. Mastery level 3, maybe aboue 20 or 25 games played as Taliyah. And she still just feels like she kicks her own ass. Even without all the restrictions, I don't think her kit would be broken. Why did every ability have some sort of condition or restriction attached to it?

Passive: Here's a movement speed buff. BUT, only if you're near a wall and out of combat.

Q: Here's some consistent, pretty good damage, BUT it's short range, can be blocked by minions, and you can't use it in the same area twice... for around two minutes. But don't worry, here's 10 movement speed in the circle to make up for it. And you can only throw one rock while you're in it. With the same CD. But half mana!

W: This ability is pretty good. NO idea at all why it isn't cast like Viktor's laser, but there are dozens of threads on just that topic.

E: Here's an AoE ability that does a little bit of damage, BUT it's short ranged, and only reaches max potential if someone is displaced through it.

R: Here's a GIANT DRUMPF WALL. But, crazy long CD, moderate casting time, no damage, but all in all, a solid ability.

It just really feels like you guys were afraid of reallying unlocking Taliyah's full potential, and I don't get why. Q wouldn't have even been broken without the Worked Ground mechanic. It's a skillshot, that you can't even change after you've started the 3 second cast. E could've procced just off of movement through it, and it wouldn't have been broken. The passive would've been awesome if it could be used during combat, because it still restricts you to walls. Just all these extra restrictions for no reason. Just a rant, I guess. But it really feels like you released her gutted.

10 Comments

Pheonixwish6/20/2016, 4:15:57 AM5 votes

I guess they really wanted to give her some depth (unlike certain other champs that I won't bother naming), even if that means she has a ton of counterplay and requires a lot of coordination.

Personally, I've been enjoying her quite a bit. With low mana poke, a powerful aoe that procs Rylai's, and an overall unconventional but play making kit, she feels like a wealth of potential. It might not appeal to everyone, but any champion really needs some getting used to.

Da3awss6/20/2016, 4:33:05 AM2 votes

I love this productive and civil discussion!

BloodyTompon6/20/2016, 6:54:29 AM2 votes

Here's some consistent, pretty good damage

The damage on Q is insane. (MAXIMUM MAGIC DAMAGE: 180 / 240 / 300 / 360 / 420 (+ 120% AP)) After Rylai's it becomes much more difficult to dodge it too. It simply would not be allowed to have the damage without the restriction on it.

NO idea at all why it isn't cast like Viktor's laser, but there are dozens of threads on just that topic.

The short answer it was an experiment.

E: Here's an AoE ability that does a little bit of damage, BUT it's short ranged, and only reaches max potential if someone is displaced through it.

Same as here Q. It does silly amounts of damage in the best case scenario, but that is only allowed to exist because it's not guaranteed.

But it really feels like you released her gutted.

She's sitting around 53% win rate on this patch in plat+. I wouldn't call that gutting http://champion.gg/champion/Taliyah

But my greatest issue in the games I've played with her, is that she requires SO MUCH skill just to do so little.

This is needed to be fair in a PvP game. In a PvE game it's fine to have a more skilled champ be stronger. But in PvP it's not acceptable to make a champ stronger just because they require more skill. Imagine a world where Azir is 3x as strong as he is now simply because he takes more skill : Most games would have Azir if that happened. Not only would that be boring to see him every game, it'll feel shitty going against him knowing, 'oh! I picked a champ that does not require as much skill so I will lose'. It makes the game winning or losing entirely in the hands of the people playing Azir. If he wins, it's because Azir, if he loses it's because Azir messed up. It devalues the game for everybody other than Azir.

CreationFlaw6/20/2016, 4:15:37 AM2 votes

To be fair, that q fucking two shots lategame.

Sir Hammerlock6/20/2016, 4:34:46 AM2 votes

Her kit design is counter-intuitive and she feels like a worse Nunu, in all honestly.

Taliyah will never be strong because her Ultimate is basically one of the most useless Ultimates in the game, especially when it comes to team fights.

If you're going to play Taliyah mid, you may as well play a control mage that has more damage and more control, like Anivia or Orianna.

Unfortunately, as you said, she just defeats herself with her kit. Her W is probably the only saving grace for her until late game, where her Q does quite a hefty amount of damage. But the way she's designed means she'll never have a "strong" moment.

Only Play Darius6/20/2016, 7:00:09 AM1 votes

Just keep her off of my team if you ever play her.

I Be Rad6/20/2016, 4:50:53 AM1 votes

First of all, all of you guys' responses are very valid and helpful.

But my greatest issue in the games I've played with her, is that she requires SO MUCH skill just to do so little. Like, just for me to have even a bats chance in hell to 1v1 an even ADC, I have to have some Xerath-level (who is my main) skillshot ability, but do it right up in their faces in AA range. anyone else that's played Taliyah, you ever get that feeling in your gut when you jump off the wall into your cornered enemies and think "Oh shit, I'm probably gonna die here." She shouldn't feel like that.

When I'm playing Xerath, or Cassiopeia, or Orianna, Twisted Fate, Syndra... I feel awesome when it's just me and the ADC. Lol. Bring that ass here boy. But as Taliyah... If I don't play 100% perfectly, then I don't even have a chance of killing the ADC... or whoever I've separated from the team. It feels awful, and I'm very surprised she even got through playtesting.

Darth Sidiouss6/20/2016, 5:56:42 AM1 votes

On context with what you said about her R, If you look up Sion he has the same CD as Tailyah with his R and im sure riot did this on purpose. When deciding her R CD, they looked at what Sions ult brings to the table which is a huge gap closer that gives plays for your team. So that's why its set at that cool down and unlikely to change. I felt the same till i saw sions CD as well and figured out what riot did in judgement.