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Buffing Mid-Lane Zyra While Making Support Zyra More Fair

Sir Rouge·10/6/2018, 2:06:12 AM·8 votes·4,624 views
  1. Of course, fix her current plant AI bugs.

Passive: Seeds spawn around Zyra periodically, becoming faster with level and lasting 30 seconds. If an enemy Champion steps on a seed, it dies. --> When Zyra hits an enemy with basic spell, 1/2 plant(s) (at levels 1/13) of its appropriate type is/are spawned at 225 units (prevents auto-kills from melees) anywhere around the target(s) hit (1/2 plant(s) per enemy hit).
Note: Takes away something that is out of the control of the player (feels bad when it doesn't spawn where you want it to spawn) and rewards hitting abilities (right now, hitting Q isn't very essential as it just does a bit of damage).

Mana costs: Q mana cost: 70 --> 60 E mana cost: 70/75/80/85/90 --> 70/80/90/100/110 Note: Making her Q mana cost lower due to her new passive (using Q is less oppressive/more risky since you don't have a passive anymore if you don't hit the ability), while making her E have a higher mana cost when you level it up (keep her overall mana costs in check).

Damage and cooldowns: Q damage: 60/95/130/165/200 (+60% AP) --> 70/105/140/175/210 (+70% AP) Q cooldown: 7/6.5/6/5.5/5 ---> 6.5/6/5.5/5/4.5 Note: Give her decent base damage + scaling for hitting her Q that ressembles other mages more. Also, since her Q is going to fail to do anything more often than it does on live (on live, you can still miss your Q and spawn a plant from your passive if a seed was there), give it a lower cooldown.

Enemy damage to plants (note: her plants have 8 health): Levels 1-12 (unchanged): Ranged basic attack: 4 Melee basic attack: 8 Single target spells: 8 Area-Effect spells: 4 Damage over time effects: 1 Large minions/monsters: 2 Small minions/monsters: 1

Levels 13+: Ranged basic attack: 4 Melee basic attack: 4 Single target spells: 4 Area-Effect spells: 2 Damage over time effects: 1 Large minions/monsters: 2 Small minions/monsters: 1

Note: Early game/mid game, it makes sense that melee basic attacks and single target spells instantly kill her plants, so that she's not too oppressive and that her plants have counterplay. However, later in the game, this makes her plants too weak. As for AoE, players kill her plants without even meaning to, so I would also reduce it later in the game.

Overall:

  • Rebalance her mana costs
  • Make her Q itself deal more appropriate damage for a mage
  • Make her do much less if she doesn't hit her E or her Q on enemy champions
  • Take away the extreme randomness from her passive
  • Reward Zyra players by making her more effective than before if you can constantly hit your abilities
  • Make her plants scale better into the lategame
  • Easier to balance if too strong

5 Comments

Ætheist10/6/2018, 2:36:35 AM4 votes

Give her a variation of Yorick's passive.

Passive: Garden of Thorns

Cadaverous Bloom - Every X seconds, the next enemy unit that dies near Zyra leaves behind a seed. Damaging enemy champions with Zyra's attacks or abilities (excluding plant attacks) reduces this timer. Enemy champions always leave behind a seed when they die.

Disturbed Soil - Enemy champions that use mobility skills near Zyra leave behind a seed. This effect cannot occur from the same enemy champion more than once every Y seconds.

MegaLobunny10/6/2018, 2:29:27 AM2 votes

I agree that her passive could use some work but I’m not sure getting 1/2 free plant spawns just from hitting a spell (when seeds were previously needed) really fits with her thematically. To me, her seeds spawns have given her a unique identity where she turns an area into her personal garden just by being there and means enemies have to be wary. Would it be better to alter where the seeds spawn? Such as seeds having much higher spawn rates near jg monsters and champions or in a radius near where she last cast as a spell? Or maybe would spread out in a radius near the last seed she personally planted. It would give Zyra more control over them.

Breezy Boyy10/6/2018, 8:07:56 PM2 votes

The issue with Zyra mid isn't exactly lack of damage, but lack of any escape tools, or defensive abilities. When ganked, all she has is a root, and if that misses, it leaves her completely open.

Sure, other mid lane mages may not have escape tools, such as dashes, either, but they usually have more, or easier to hit, crowd control. Lux for example has longer range than Zyra, as well as a slow for when her root misses, and a shield just for extra safety. Orianna also has a shield, and can increase her own movement speed at the sacrifice of slowing her enemies. Veigar doesn't even have to land the stun in order to trap enemies and keep them off of him, as his stun takes up such a large area, and even if that misses, he is capable of damage dealing rivaling that of any other champion. Syndra has better range, and an easy to hit knock back to keep people off of her. Talyiah has mobility and more crowd control. Brand has an easy to pull off combo that also stuns, and enough AoE damage to make the enemy second guess grouping up on him. Xerath has incredible range, and one of the easier to land stuns. Ahri has mobility, thanks to both her Q and R, not to mention sustain. Cassiopeia has sustain, and can trap enemies with movement impairment. I could keep going on if I wanted to.

Like I said at the beginning, Zyra simply lacks any way of defending herself, or keeping herself alive, that pretty much every other mid lane mage has. If they gave her some form of sustain, then yeah, maybe she'd have a shot

0 Hogapu10/6/2018, 2:20:16 PM1 votes

I love the passive change. This gives Zyra players more agency and would feel better to play.

Mana changes are also super great, as her q costs way to much for midlane. Increasing the E cost would nerf support zyra and this is great.

Concerning her plants HP, make it so that damage over time effects cant deal more than 2hp/second if they are AoE (so that a random MF’s E or morgana’s W won’t kill them super fastly)

meowwow710/6/2018, 8:56:59 PM1 votes

so with that new passive if i hit a full combo in bot lane as a support i'm getting 6 plants til 13 without w

edit: i read that wrong that how much dmg plants suffer from attacks