Grievous wounds is apparently more healthier when applied via autos than how Morello's does it.

One Bind Morgana·11/9/2015, 8:54:15 PM·75 votes·3,816 views

Riot Axes was asked:

Q: Why does Executioner's Calling proc without any prerequisition like the one Morellonomicon has?

A: We think this model is correct for Executioner's Calling, particularly given the changes to Grievous Wounds (e.g. it no longer applies to healing from allies, so soraka's W isn't reduced). It's possible that we need to re-evaluate Morellonomicon, though I'm much less sure about that one.

mind telling me why you believe applying gw on auto attacks is more balanced than applying gw via morello's current passive? it's obvious to anyone who's played more than 100 games that you're not making any sense here.

53 Comments

MorganFreemanBot11/9/2015, 9:01:15 PM23 votes

Because champs who have any significant portion of their power tied up in self-healing should be garbage.

[slayer-jinx-catface]

bobsenbob11/10/2015, 12:14:15 AM8 votes

you know what's dumb? morello passive would make more sense for executioners calling, after all, it's EXECUTIONERS calling

junglerboy1611/10/2015, 2:32:55 AM8 votes

Actually, YES!

Morellonomicon actually has a very unhealthy version of grievous wounds because it completely counteracts the things that many healing based champs rely on most: Being at low health for bonus healing.

BIG DISCLAIMER: The new EC and its upgrade are also bad iterations of Grievous wounds because they are too strong stat-wise.

That said, punishing a healing champion when they are supposed to be thriving is just counterintuitive game design. Of all the intrinsically healing based/drain tank champs (notably Aatrox DrMundo Olaf Volibear Zac), the majority rely on healing steroids that directly or indirectly increase when at a particularly low health level. This style of durability sets them apart as being specifically more difficult to DPS to death, while being more vulnerable to burst (If they're at 30% health and you can burst them to death in one go, they're dead. If you can only whittle away at their health, they'll sustain through it and kill you like they are supposed to do). Applying grievous wounds only to low health targets hard counters many of their core play patterns in an arbitrary and unfair way. Tell me, would you prefer to take 20% reduced healing at any health %, or take 40% but only below half HP? If you were a volibear, you'd know for sure that that 20% flat healing debuff is FAR healthier than 40% at below half, since the latter completely cripples his passive. That same train of thought goes for Aatrox's W heal, Mundo's ultimate, Zac's passive, or Olaf's whole dang kit.

That said, Grievous wounds across the board should be MUCH weaker, especially if they move to this healthier model of applying to damage at all health %s. Either some sort of stacking debuff (still capped low, say 25% healing reduction) or a flat debuff of at most 20% should be used. 40% is too extreme an amount and causes drain tanks to become excessively binary depending on whether they are grievous wounded or not during a fight.

Zair Umbras11/10/2015, 7:54:44 AM4 votes

Where does it say that they believe GW on AA's is more balanced..? He CLEARLY says 'It's possible that we need to re-evaluate Morellonomicon'. But Nomicon is also an item that's almost guaranteed to used in a game since almost every mid will pick it up where-as an ADC may not be able to pass up the 15% damage boost or the ADC is Corki who scales better with a Void.

Divewing11/10/2015, 4:31:19 AM3 votes

For melees only?: meh, ok I guess thats fair Abusable by filthy ranged AAs?: lolwut >_>

CrazedPorcupine11/10/2015, 12:53:53 AM3 votes

He's the issue with Morellonomicon. Some of the better healing effects in League are only good under about 20% HP. Alongside the incredibly efficient stats that Morello's provides, most of those effects aren't used. Mundo isn't used because the optimal time to use his ult is when he's around 30% HP. However, that's lower than Morello's and because of how cheap and efficient Morello's is as a first item, It really counteracts many of the champions who would get picked.

Executioner's calling is cheap yes, but it also only builds into a last whisper upgrade. This means that if a person wants to get the Giant slayer, they'll have to pass on Executioner's calling and vice Versa. Also, because it provides sub par stats and it's upgrade isn't that good against squishy targets, and is only good late after tanks have a lot of bonus Armor, means that an executioner's calling rush isn't as good as a Morellonomicon Rush.

Erockandroll11/10/2015, 12:13:34 AM2 votes

I think the problem is, Morrelo's GV is being balanced around the abuse case scenario. (probably involving champions who hit nearly all the champions at one.

The fact that the GV is tied to abilities, means that its effectiveness is dependent more so on the champion kit. (Where the ad case it's more uniform, which makes it easier to balance. )

RisenDarkKnight11/10/2015, 3:47:19 AM2 votes

I don't understand rito. Why nerf Mundo, Swain, Volibear, and Vladimere and buff Soraka? You just buffed Mundo because he was too weak, Volibear hasn't been good in IDK how long, Swain is sleeper OP but definitely didn't need this kind of nerf, and Vlad isn't op either. Soraka on the other hand will be obnoxious to deal with now that you can't grievous wounds her ally to kill them. Now you have to focus her which means blowing important cooldowns on the enemy support.

PokladnicaZla11/9/2015, 9:57:42 PM2 votes

GW wounds should have their duration decreased since AAs are more consistent than spell(of which most are skillshoots).

Duke Anax11/9/2015, 9:39:33 PM2 votes

Mages often have a burst that can bring a champ imediately below 40%, but AA champs need to keep atacking over time, so they actually need those constant grievous wounds or they'd never get them that low.

Nekolie11/10/2015, 9:03:54 AM2 votes

If I had to guess, I'd say that it unintentionally biases champions that have higher health pools over champions with lower health or whose self healing mechanics are triggered later. It's harder to knock say mundo down to that 40% than it is champions like Vlad or Swain. It also more heavily punishes champions like Volibear who only get healing near death, guaranteeing grievous wounds is applied with morellonomicon. Also, depending on what triggers the proc, it can actually be harder to beat self healers who are already ahead since someone who you are already struggling to kill may never be low enough to actually apply the effect making the counter useless.

When its application is more consistent, it's easier to balance since the solution can be simple number tweaks. It also guarantees there aren't any edge cases and it will affect all self healers consistently.

Mundo11/11/2015, 5:22:17 PM2 votes

Mundo dealing with enough right now! Leave Mundo ALONE!

Captainn Ginyu11/10/2015, 8:12:32 PM1 votes

im in favor of EC for the fact it can help shut down some snowballing champs that being said i dont really see it being built on everyone despite giving GW its really not that great of an item to have unless you REALLY need it

DragonShea11/10/2015, 8:38:16 AM1 votes

Lower GW to 25% and we are cool. Right now the high availability of well anyone think [zombie-brand-mindblown]

IcyPepper11/9/2015, 11:37:26 PM1 votes

I believe someone mentioned the whole "sustained damage vs burst damage."

Basically GW on autoattacks prevents someone just outhealing the damage during the duration, while Morello's prevents someone undoing your entire burst combo right off the bat. If Morello's was constant, you would be bursted and then have no breathing room afterwards if you survived. If EC was conditional, it'd be a lot hard to shred tanks and bruisers who have some sort of healing tools.

The changes to GW overall makes it so that dueling is more difficult in the sustain department, but gives power to supportive roles in teamfights.

Make of that as you will, I'm not really sure how to feel myself.

Totalis11/10/2015, 9:51:46 PM1 votes

dw it's more healthier

KilljoyX11/10/2015, 3:41:32 PM1 votes

{quoted}

Riot Axes was asked:

mind telling me why you believe applying gw on auto attacks is more balanced than applying gw via morello's current passive? it's obvious to anyone who's played more than 100 games that you're not making any sense here.

Because Karthus applying GW at 100% hp when ulting would ruin the game.

Dengeden11/10/2015, 5:03:29 AM1 votes

Because mages are much more likely to get their target bellow 40%, as they are burst oriented. Because mages can choose their targets more freely than ADCs, who just hammer away at the frontline. Because rushing EC delays your powerspike, while rushing Morello's does not.

Silents42911/10/2015, 7:26:13 AM1 votes

Because mages burst and get a targets HP down to under 40% easily, Marksmen take longer to do this, and if it worked the same way has Morrel then it would be useless.