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Corelation betwean champion level and division.. and proof that MMR/ELO can't work properly with LOL

Neosphoros·12/30/2018, 9:49:42 PM·2 votes·3,526 views

In theory champion level going up when we are getting more experienced - it make sense.

Achieving higher levels of our champions requires from us simply - much more efford.

To achieve lvl 7 it is even not enough to have good KDA score, but the player need to have few other factors on good level - like: vision points, CC, etc.

By trying to based only on those information it is easy to ask how it is possible that system choosing us to play together with players less experienced than we are (with champions level lower than our).

It suggest that or CHampion Level Achievment System - make no sense, or ELO/MMR system is broken, becouse:

  • if Champion Level Achievment System (and becouse of that - our champions lvl) does not proof about our skill so it denies geting experience - which is universal paradigm (universal truth)

  • If we (as a players) with lvl 7 (of ours champions) maight be selected to the same team with less experienced players it suggest that - system is broken, in other way it suggest that betwean player with lvl 7 and lvl 1 there is no - experience difference - which it is even sound STUPID

and MOST IMPORTANT PROOF that system like MMR/ELO can not work properly with teamgame with so many variables (different lanes, 140 different champions):

Let we try to imagine a one-lane-player (player playing only on one lane) that is located in... ex platinum division. Let say that system already have set his MMR on some high level (relevant with this division). So now lets think - what happened if this player in ranked game will decide to play on different lane than his main lane (lane that he have never played before - that he do not know how to play at all) - let's skip the sense of something like that but let we note - that it is possible. System will simply put this player without any problems to selected by MMR (in theory) - team. Question we can ask is simply - "why? is that mean that MMR will be the same for main-lane and for lane that he never played on - before"... yes! System do not know how to distinguish with that problem after all, it is known that we have already achieved specific division... it is only one division, not few specified for every different lane. System can not deal with that problem - and becouse of that system "hurts" many players by wrong selection of opponents and allies.

39 Comments

haaaaaaalp12/31/2018, 12:45:45 AM2 votes

This is exactly the reason why we are getting position based mmr next season. No single value can or should be used to represent ranked in all 5 roles.

Cats Are Food12/30/2018, 10:36:06 PM1 votes

In earlier seasons it wasn't so bad. They basically used a version of True Skill, but changed the algorithm completely after it was figured out for some damned reason.

Neosphoros12/31/2018, 6:17:59 PM1 votes

SUGGESTION:

"TrueSkill is a skill-based ranking system developed by Microsoft for use with video game matchmaking on Xbox Live. Unlike the popular Elo rating system, which was initially designed for chess, TrueSkill is designed to support games with more than two players."

Kai Guy12/31/2018, 10:09:40 PM1 votes

Man, I wish you paid better attention to my responses.

The K factor. uncertainty. Its higher on newer accounts. some one awfull whos playing stuff they don't know IS a liability. Low K factor = low experience. They lose MMR faster then players in a division with games played.

Get it? Elo/MMR/Trueskill All inherently account for players having low or higher experience. Its already built into the system.

Champion mastery? That's just a tracker for time invested. Not skill. You can be mastery 7 and still a subpar player on a champion. Adding Champion mastery into your matchmaker is a mistake.

Look I know why your going on about this. You have another thread https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/EEcPrLo8-why-elo-system-can-not-work-properly-in-lol-normal-drat-ranked-soloduo

Your complaining about teammates vs enemy team mastery levels. You need to realize there's no way for the system to control what champions a player picks. Theres never a 100% way for it to know who is playing what.

How many times do you need me to give you this link? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kB2UADNoRUA <- click this. watch it. LEARN ABOUT MMR AND ELO!

I will help you translate it if you need. I know there's a language barrier. Yet at some point man you need to actual check the links I keep giving you. You say something wrong. I correct you. I give sourses. You don't check them and use your lack of understanding to validate your views.

I will help you if you let me.

Also. What happened to going question for question with me? You dipped out with out even answering me. Same question. Did you watch this yet? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kB2UADNoRUA

Neosphoros1/1/2019, 1:45:28 PM1 votes

Oposite to 1vs1 chess in almost imposible to create a strategy for random-created team, so... why the author your movie has assumed that it was not necessary to evaluate player by his role in team and position? - nobody knows.

So...

"what happened if any player in ranked game will decide to play on different lane than his main lane and whole his ELO is based on?"

...is the autor trying to say that player ELO/MMR (or whole his experience if you wish) is universal and will be the same for every role/lane even he never palyed on specific lane

It is like to say that basketball player should have the same ELO/MMR in basketball and football even this player have never played in football

If this specific player have build his ELO/MMR on specific lane/role should be different for lane that he never played before in other way formula for LOL-ELO is broken.

In single sentence it is possible to say that:

ELO formula is based on "probability" inside on "probabilty" and one specific result based on (in theory) fixed values may give in many cases - differnt values

Neosphoros1/1/2019, 11:21:04 PM1 votes

It can be said that this LOL-ELO/MMR formula allows to determine of ELO / MMR in random teams, but purely - by accident - only based on total randomness.... because the multiplicity of "variables" prevents the assumption of fixed values and therefore the correct match of players.

Neosphoros1/2/2019, 9:42:53 AM1 votes

The players are hypothetical, not actual players. He randomly assigns a "skill rating" Remember the assumption in Elo is skill = win % goes up. So he has players randomly assigned with a variable that tweaks their win rate %. Lower skill = more losses. Higher skill = More wins. That's the Strength on a "player" Then in testing he does not use this number to build teams. The system functions like elo, off wins and losses. He uses Monte Carlo for his simulation. Very clear steps. Very clear work.

It means only that if you will put specific player to and against team with similiar MMR - PROBABILITY to win will be always 50% and if your team is randomly selected you have no possibility to affect on your team.

Including also the fact that we (as a players) can not predict AFK, trolls etc - PROBABILITY decreasing... and it is even possible to say that everyone will have the same problem becouse many factors contribute to this.

Neosphoros1/3/2019, 7:55:57 PM1 votes

Observing the system, one can come to a conclusion. Well, the selection of players to teams works according to a certain pattern / script. If you want to develop the skill of the game with only one specific hero, the system will assign very weak sojaczników from the beginning, but over time - will choose the better ones. It will always be suggested by post-match statistics. Regardless of how good we would not play (almost), we will always lose the first few games. However, as you can observe the same problem, there will be no opponents.

Neosphoros1/3/2019, 9:31:01 PM1 votes

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Neosphoros1/3/2019, 11:21:31 PM1 votes

What is the chance in properly functioning system (that selects players according to a similar level of experience) that in five subsequent lost games were selected trols / noobs... none? So why is it happened?

https://i.ibb.co/5xgYznq/1.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/6gXcbRX/2.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/cTR3D1m/3.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/TcyT5dT/4.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/HHMMtzf/5.jpg

  • troll/noob in this case = player with K/D/a < 1)

  • every enemy had K/D/A > 1 or even > 2

It follows that in 10 consecutive games the probability that I had troll / noob in my team (and maybe becouse of that - I lost the game) was 50%.

Neosphoros1/3/2019, 11:59:19 PM1 votes

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Nhifu12/30/2018, 10:13:50 PM1 votes

Champion level has nothing to do with matchmaking.

I wish it did though, then we won't see "It's my first time playing Yasuo in placements!"

Neosphoros1/4/2019, 11:09:25 AM1 votes

6th game lost because AFK/troll/noob = 60% of 10 last games and 100% of lost games because AFK/troll/noob does not look like coincidence but purposeful operation of the system.

https://i.ibb.co/S3XsZjM/6.jpg