Is it fair to say juggernaut update shortly before worlds was a HUGE mistake by Riot's balance team?

iainB85·10/10/2015, 1:23:06 AM·95 votes·4,899 views

At a level where pick pick/bans are so critical (even targeted bans versus certain teams -- they research that), is it safe to say at this point Riot's balance team royally screwed up by releasing the juggernauts patch and failing to balance it, so much so, that two recently reworked champions have remained 100% pick/ban rate throughout the entire series?

I really feel like these poor decisions have had a HEAVY impact on the worlds stage, which is really sad.

83 Comments

planters10/10/2015, 2:32:18 AM26 votes

Please explain to me in detail how this patch is worse than any other worlds patch in terms of balance.

Are there OP champions? yes kind of like how in season 3 zed kassadin ahri fizz were all perma pick and ban. or how season 4 had twitch kog yasuo and trist in almost every single game. Sure morde is disgusting, gangplank is oppressive and Darius is penta-dunking everything, but when it comes right down to it I have seen relatively little reason to say it has made the worst worlds yet. In fact, there have been 63 unique picks during this worlds making that strategic diversity thing actually somewhat true.

Did riot fail to balance the juggernauts? unquestioningly. Did it have a HEAVY impact. Yes it did. Do these two things immediately make things bad. Nope. Why? because league has lacked decent balance since the first day i started playing in season 3 and I can honestly say, with all these unbalanced factors at work teams are being forced to consider their decisions a lot more heavily than they used to. This led to the massive power in pick and ban phase. I will in no means defend the juggernaut patches as being balanced, but from a spectator point of view I dont see how this has made worlds worse to watch so please give me some decent reason making it the worst patch ever.

ZT Xperimentor10/10/2015, 2:47:46 AM15 votes

I'd say it was mishandled regardless of the timing related to the championships.

Only Play Darius10/10/2015, 5:35:58 AM6 votes

I like it

More diversity

Seeing champs like Mord/Darius/Skarner who were considered unplayable trash tier (in competitive play) ever since their release are actually doing well in worlds of all series.

I'm sure many people never thought they would see the day.

Earl Eulrich10/10/2015, 9:48:46 AM5 votes

Well, there are a few obvious problems (@Morde) - but for the most part it really made Worlds more exciting and less predictable than the years before. Now it really tests the teams adaptbility to new circumstances...they could maybe ban some obvious Op-picks from the torunament after groups, but for the most part i hope they´ll do it the same way next year.

Dengeden10/10/2015, 6:05:46 AM4 votes

Not really, pros always find something to pick or ban. If it weren't for the juggernauts, they'd ban out Lulu and the main junglers.

Valenten10/10/2015, 4:37:18 AM4 votes

I actually dont think that the Juggernauts had a major impact on worlds tbh. Most of the time they were picked they didnt have a very big impact on the game. Sure a few times Darius was picked and had a meaningful impact on the game. The pros/high elo know how to deal with them and use them so there isnt much of a problem when it comes to them.

CISTERN10/10/2015, 9:09:46 AM3 votes

Bull shits community and pros get used for fighters/juggernauts (top lane) to carry one out of 10 games, now they carry 2 out of ten games and everyone who plays mid or bot adc do like a baby because this game supposed to be mid bot and their slaves. Even now 8 out of ten games get carried by mid or marksman .

100% increased win ratio op

LVL 5 PORO10/10/2015, 3:48:30 AM3 votes

Yes. If red side doesn't ban Mord they are screwed. Which means the other team has 3 bans and they have 2, which puts them at a disadvantage in the banning stage purely because of Riots terrible balancing.

A unanimous ban option needs to be implemented to avoid this ever happening again. A way for both teams to agree on a champion(s) to ban w/o costing 3 of the limited bans they have already.

Canastus10/10/2015, 10:02:30 PM3 votes

First they claim to not release any major changes before Worlds since it would affect the players too much. And yet they release several reworks at once in the form of a Juggernaut update which singlehandely alters the meta as we know it. Hypocrisy at its finest.

Totalis10/10/2015, 7:11:40 PM3 votes

How do you figure? No one can deny this has been one of the most exciting, diverse, and fun worlds in 4 years, I think it was great decision.

Rinky Dinky10/10/2015, 4:28:23 PM2 votes

Having the most diverse champion pool out of any worlds before was a huge mistake?

These boards are hurting my soul fucks sake

Sire Hippington10/10/2015, 12:42:11 PM2 votes

the juggernauts patch was overall a mistake, because they changed to much at once. 3 bigger changes in one patch, it not only means a huge overall impact on the game, but it makes it really hard to keep track of what causes what. the 3 bigger changes:

tank item rebalance, overall nerf to tankitems
juggernaut-items
juggernaut reworks

People complain about the 4 juggernaut reworks all day long, but asides from pre-nerf scarner and obviously morde, i think the items are more the reason for that. Renekton so far seems to do much better than Darius in worlds for example, and from my own experience, Trundle wrecks with the new items and Voli jungle with deadman's is a beast. I wouldn't be supprised if other juggernauts apear later at worlds...

Unlucky Number710/10/2015, 4:32:14 PM2 votes

The reason why morde is pick and ban is because choosing him drastically changes the landscape of the game. not many teams are comfortable dealing with such a big change, and as i've seen not many players who pick morde use him to his full potential even though he has such a simple kit.

Jungle Lux God10/10/2015, 5:28:11 PM2 votes

The juggernaut update shortly before worlds I think was fine.

No matter what, there's going to be some sort of 100% pick/ban champions at worlds. The juggernaut update just decided which of those champions were pick/ban.

Since the juggernaut update was released between the time most regionals were done and the time worlds started, you can argue that that the juggernaut update was done in the perfect time for worlds because it provides teams with new champions that they need to learn how to play as/against that they didn't know how to play as/against before, and made Worlds as much a test of adaptability as it is a test of skill and strategy.

Kalarepa10/10/2015, 9:20:54 PM2 votes

Well, huge patch made worlds interesting... for the first 4 days. Now we see the same champions in every game like usually.
Top lane - Darius vs Gnar Jungle - Elise vs Gragas, sometimes Lee Sin or Eve Mid lane - Orianna, Azir, Lulu, Ekko Support - Alistar, Morgana, Thresh, something Tahm Kench or Braum ADC - Jinx vs Tristana vs Kalista, sometimes Morde if someone forgets to ban him

Biffolo10/11/2015, 2:10:47 AM2 votes

I for one like it. It pushes teams to research and learn new things in a restricted timeframe. A month and a half is plenty of time. Some teams have fared just fine when it comes to pick/ban, while other teams dont. And I like that, because it shows which teams are flexible and adaptable, which is a skill in of itself.

Crossette10/11/2015, 5:19:53 AM2 votes

You know what else isn't a good choice? (doesn't matter for worlds)

item 3710 item 3718 item 3722 item 3726 item 3930 item 3931 item 3932 item 3933

XIII Vanitas10/12/2015, 1:24:26 PM1 votes

Riot wanted the game to be slightly unbalanced: they wanted to change the meta from the LCS one, with different champions and shorter games.