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The easiest way to fix Rylais

Goodnight Nunu·10/8/2016, 2:51:06 PM·49 votes·2,633 views

Cost->unchanged 100 AP-> 70 (Zhonyas/Abyssal level) 400 hp -> 500 AOE slow 40%-> 30% single target slow 40%-> 30%. (Looking at you, Cassio)

This would keep it as a defensive OPTION for mages and bruisers alike who really NEED the slow. Its slow is too strong anyways and tying heavy utility to high damage items is stupid, thus nerfing the AP component and make it an undesirable rush item for burst mages.

On the topic of Viktor though and that he "needs" it for hitting his E/ult Riot changed his delays so that there was COUNTERPLAY to them, so that enemies could dodge them. It was meant to up his reward for aiming them correctly, that's why they buffed the damage on r/e With rylais they become too easy to get off, a lower slow and it not being built as his first item should help make it so.

Also, burst mages should not get high damage and utility. Most of them have hard cc to set up their combo/ peel, they shouldn't even rely on rylai but they all build it because of the 100 ap on it

66 Comments

Marshbouy10/8/2016, 2:54:38 PM39 votes

Cost->unchanged 100 AP-> 70 (Zhonyas/Abyssal level) 400 hp -> 500 AOE slow 40%-> 30% single target slow 40%-> 30%. (Looking at you, Cassio)

the cost would have to go down considerably. You are removing 652.5g worth of stats for 133 g of stats. That's not even taking into account the CC reduction.

that being said rylais should be a tanky defensive option for mages, just as long as it stays gold efficient.

Champion Skin10/8/2016, 3:56:02 PM5 votes

single target slow 40%-> 30%. (Looking at you, Cassio)

How about... single target 40% however if the ability has less then x second cooldown is counted as AoE (or DoT) and get the reduced slow effect

Overloadroad10/8/2016, 3:31:56 PM4 votes

So this nerf is kinda like the one to Frozen Mallet, right? They nerfed the dmg and gave it more HP. Imo it's the best option. :P

Caekie10/8/2016, 3:11:37 PM4 votes

Why don't they just revert it to old Rylais like the balanced piece of actual item it was....

Handy Sandy 10/8/2016, 3:03:26 PM3 votes

AurelionSol Azir Karthus really need the slow though, keep slow still 40% Cassiopeia is MEANT to kite, should really lower the AP though

bill8410/9/2016, 3:03:42 AM3 votes

They need to add another big ap item though if they do this. Currently, there are only item 3089 item 3165 item 3285 item 3003 item 3027 and item 3041 that can get 100+ ap if you remove this, and two of these are very situational items.

Selegun10/8/2016, 3:15:11 PM2 votes

If it needs to be a defensive option for mages then it needs tuned to reflect that. Convert the slow on spellcast to a permanent short range aoe like sunfire cape.

WoonStruck10/8/2016, 5:27:35 PM2 votes

Cassio needs Twinfang to count as AoE/DoT for the purpose of Rylai's/spellvamp again.

WitchQueen Annie10/9/2016, 4:36:19 PM1 votes

there's nothing to fix for the purposes of Solo Q. Its better to have the higher damage from Luddens and Rabadon in most cases anyways (the slow isn't that useful because you're expected to solo carry and can't trust your allies to follow up on the slows).

On all my mage builds, I prioritise pure AP over Rylais. Rylais is great but its not a Ludden's Echo or a Rabadon. It EVENTUALLY gets built but its not such a big deal by then because usually the game's been decided.

WitchQueen Annie10/9/2016, 4:37:28 PM1 votes

It it gives anything less than 100 AP I just wouldn't even bother building it.

Why would I bother rushing it then if I can instead have item 3285 item 3089 item 3135 earlier instead?

BlâckLotus10/9/2016, 6:45:36 PM1 votes

riot introduced protobelt,ap tank tops already got a buff,why are you complaining,havent we seen enough rumble,mordekaiser,cassiopeia already? why cant we get ap champions to be more squishy without everyone complaining about the 3 champions that rush this item.Vlad,morde,rumble,cassio,malzahar please tell me how these champions are underpowered and will be completely wiped off the game when rylais gets changed?

HazyCloud710/8/2016, 7:32:12 PM1 votes

100 extra health is not enough to compensate for the reduction in AP. You're just gutting the item. You can't reduce the AP, reduce the single target slow, reduce the AoE slow if you are going to keep the cost the same.

If you don't play viktor don't comment on whether or not he needs it; Rylai's is built 1st item on him for a reason. And don't comment on what riot did or didn't intend, you didn't work on his re-work. If Meddler or ricklessabanadon (guy who worked on viktor MYMU) comes in and says that then we'll take it as his intended balance. But otherwise don't state your opinion as fact.

Gelmous10/9/2016, 12:26:28 AM1 votes

why is there billion threads about Rylais ? did it get changed or something ?

Weasel Kensei10/9/2016, 12:59:54 AM1 votes

The only real fix would be to balance the mages that NEED additional slow/CC to have it, and remove the effect from Rylais.

If every mage is building it, and it does x,y,z, then every mage has it. Rebalance the mages that have to have it. Rebalance the item without the slow.

Now that would be hard. Probably take too much time to adjust each champ that would be hurt by the loss of additional slow.

I know against certain comps Brand needs the slow to land his combo mid/late game when more mobile champs have boots/low cooldowns on mobility spells. Karth needs it if hes going to kill any champ otherwise they will just walk away from him in a zigzag.

I could keep going, but there are two problems in effect here: First, its really good, it has a lot of AP, HP, and utility with its slowing power: Second, there is a lot of mobility creep in the game and the champs that need it cant operate without its slow and Riot wont be able to figure out how to fix their plummeting win rate.

TheHappyReaperz10/9/2016, 5:45:14 AM1 votes

The best way to change item 3116 is to take away the slow and reduce the health, giving it mana and CDR. Jokes aside, why don't they just give a cool down on the slow, like item 3025 item 3100 item 3078 . Then people couldn't spam the slow, COUGH, COUGH, snake people.

Nagoh Shan10/9/2016, 6:16:08 AM1 votes

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On the topic of Viktor though and that he "needs" it for hitting his E/ult Riot changed his delays so that there was COUNTERPLAY to them, so that enemies could dodge them. It was meant to up his reward for aiming them correctly, that's why they buffed the damage on r/e With rylais they become too easy to get off, a lower slow and it not being built as his first item should help make it so.

What other champion telegraphs their primary damage with a full second for the opponent to respond? Karthus, Cass, and Syndra are in the .4s response range IIRC, and their abilities have counterplay, what is it about Viktor that requires more than twice that?

His change in the MYMU was terrible, and it was due to the massive damage that needs an item to remove it's massive counterplay.

Viktor builds Rylai's 70% of the time and wins 57.8% of the time with it, according to LoLking right now. That means the 30% of the time he doesn't build it, he's got a 38.4% winrate in order to have a 50% overall winrate that they say he has at the moment. That's hotfix level bad.

His abilities have too much counterplay, to the point where if they land or not is not isn't up to him, but his opponent.

Off Meta Evan10/9/2016, 9:37:32 AM1 votes

how about nerf the slow, buff the ap, remove the hp all together. my biggest issue with nerfing the ap is that as someone who loves none mana using ap champs Rumble Kennen Zac is that my only 100 ap item besides that is item 3285 and unfortunately for me item 3152 item 3157 are usually too good to pass up on said champs. With a 70 ap on rylais that leaves my damage way too low for my comfort. because i miss out on a lot of damage that other ap champs could run like item 3165 or item 3003. i'm the kind of player that hates defensive damage items in the first place, such as item 3001 or item 3156 i can accept item 3140 and item 3157 being a thing because for certain champs their the only counter play you got as an immobile carry ( Zed Talon Rengar Malzahar Warwick Skarner Vi to name a few) but i hate the idea for the most part of getting damage and defensive stats for 2 reasons, 1. i feel that it would be better as a whole from a mechanical stand point because it allows for less room for error, forcing you to play better and make less mistakes. and 2. it stops shit like item 3748 item 3025 item 3152 item 3022 item 3156 from becoming fucking stupid with the right champion, all of these items have been nerfed at some point in time because offensive with a mix of defensive is just of its own nature hard to balance. its the reason why fighters are usually really stupidly strong.

TLDR: league could use more aggressive play, defensive damage items are hard to balance as a concept, i feel we need rylais the way it is or at least with more damage cause for manaless champs their isn't really a good needless item outside of item 3089 and item 3285

Xosra10/9/2016, 1:56:37 PM1 votes

Why do people keep suggesting 70 Ap what is wrong with a nice even 80 Ap like it used to be.