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In depth Talon update/mini rework, For RiotRepertoir and Meddler

Ramaero·4/19/2018, 3:55:37 AM·2 votes·3,561 views

**IMPORTANT READ THIS PARAGRAPH BEFORE GOING FURTHER - ** I want to emphasize if people think I am buffing Talons early game power and ability to one shot people quickly with my change then that is far from true and is probably what many people might think upon seeing a post on Talon. His ability to do burst damage and one shot people is less, especially early game, but is given more mobility tools and more of a reliance on skill shots, actions per minute, timing, and overall quick decision making, especially in teamfights. This should increase the skill ceiling of Talon thus playing him and being good with him will be more rewarding and fun, and he will have a potential to do greater things in a game and especially in teamfights if you do get ahead early game with him which will be more difficult to do, but will be more rewarding if successful.

This is my In depth Talon update/mini rework increasing skill ceiling with depth and variety in play style for Talon. I give the ability changes first then an in depth analysis for the changes and why I made them. Constructive criticism is welcome, but before people do those replies please read what I discuss for the change in his kit after the ability details to better understand my reasoning behind this.

**Passive - **bleeds base damage nerfed for 40 at all levels, (+ 50% bonus AD), at lvl 9 (+ 150% bonus AD), at lvl 13 + 250% bonus ad, can get a maximum of 6 stacks even though need only 3 to cause bleed, but can only be triggered one at a time and have to wait the 2 second bleed duration for it to be triggered again, Talons new keen blade(part of his w) ability can trigger bleed at 4 stacks and is the only ability that can do so

**Q - ** range lowered to 400 range at start and base and scaling damaged for ONLY the dashing part of q nerfed so it is at about 80% of damage currently at, e.g. at max rank it will be 130 (+ 90% bonus AD) when dashing to target

damage in melee range is unchanged

  • using q in melee range puts it's cooldown on 4 seconds
  • at max rank cooldown is 5 seconds
  • at lvl 9 range increases to 600

W -(biggest change to kit) after Talon uses his rake, upon next cast when his w is on cd he gains 1 stack of keen blade in which he throws out a single target blade with lowered overall damage and a more narrow hit box, please make this additional part of his w look like the first animation of his normal rake but with just one dagger/blade that looks like a big kunai

new passive called keen focus : at lvl 9 upon getting a takedown rakes cooldown goes down to 1 second and he gains 2 stacks of keen blade (separate from the one given after rake is used) in which he can continuously throw out keen blades( new alternate rake in which he throws a single dagger that looks like a big kunai) equal to the amount of stacks he has (max stacks are 11, more info below in keen blade section and specifics on stacks), stacks while in keen focus last 10 seconds and the duration is refreshed upon further takedowns

normal rake:

  • rakes base damage lowered to about 65% of current rake damage, scaling damage now 130%, e.g. at max rank 180 base damage(+130% bonus AD)
  • at max rank mana cost lowered to 40
  • at lvl 9 range increases to 700, takedowns automatically bring rakes cooldown to 1 second if any higher, first tick of rake has 60% of its total damage, cooldown decreases to 7 seconds
  • at lvl 13 the first tick does 80% of its total damage, and the slow lasts for 1.5 seconds

keen blade:

  • looks like the shape of one of Talons 3 daggers in the first tick of Talons W, sort of like the shape of a big kunai

  • upon using rake gain 1 stack of keen blade which allows you to use this ability immediately after rake and only when rake is on cd

  • keen blade costs no additional mana and it's only cost is using up the stacks, only normal rake uses mana

  • hit box - 70% diameter of normal rakes hit box when normal rake reaches max length

  • lvl 1-8 - does 20% of rakes damage and has 400 range

  • at lvl 9 range increases to 700 and increases to doing 70% of rakes damage

  • at lvl 13 range increases to 850

  • does 80% damage to units beyond the first

  • blades can be picked up if Talon walks over to them within a range of 100 which gives 1 stack for each blade picked up and allows it to be used again, If keen focus is activated Talon can pick up blades up to 5 stacks and if walk over a blade with 5 stacks the blade will just stay in place, however keen focus can allow him to have at most 11 stacks as a result of takedowns but he can only ever get up to 5 from just picking up his blades, and can only get up to 1 if keen focus was not triggered from a takedown

  • blades will stay on the ground for 10 seconds before disappearing

  • picking up a blade will ghost Talon and give him 10-25% multiplicative movement speed for 2 seconds from lvls 1-13.

  • keen blade does not stack bleed passive, however keen blade does refresh current bleed stack durations on champions, and will trigger bleeds passive only if there are 4 stacks of bleed while triggering with an auto attack still needs only 3 stacks

  • lvl 9 and above using another keen blade within 2 seconds of each other lowers the damage each time used in that duration, for each time used within 2 seconds goes down to 60%, 50%, 40% of rakes total damage, however takedowns refresh this back to original 70% of rake damage

  • edit to w - Talon must wait 1 second before throwing out another Keen Blade, and this is not affected by cooldown reduction

E (second biggest change to kit)- in addition to his wall hop, if not used next to terrain Talon rapidly dashes 200-400 units based on level (lvl 9 300 units, lvl 13 400 units)

  • dash speed is 2500
  • Talon can use rake and keen blade during wall hops and during dashes
  • if uses dash during stealth it will break stealth
  • cooldown based on ability rank, 35, 30, 25, 20, 15
  • gain 30% movement speed for 1 second after the dash and becomes ghosted
  • at lvl 9 after the dash it instead becomes 40% multiplicative movement speed for 2 seconds and becomes ghosted
  • Talon is immune to slows during the duration of the movement speed increase after the dash
  • Talon can cancel the dash within the first 2/3 of his dash range
  • takedowns reset the cooldown of his dash and gives him a stack of dash in which he can use two dashes consecutively, stacks of dash lasts 15 seconds and he cannot get more than one stack, but if a takedown occurs rapidly one after the other he has the potential to dash 10 times almost consecutively
  • triggering a bleed automatically bring the cooldown of his dash to 3 seconds, bleeds triggered if less than 3 seconds in cooldown will have no affect
  • at max skill rank walls are on a 40 second cooldown
  • at all ranks and levels getting a takedown brings the remaining duration of all terrain on cooldown to 5 seconds

**R - ** when Talon ults each blade of his ult leaves a keen blade on the ground to be picked up so that there are several keen blades aligned in a circle

  • becomes ghosted during invisibility
  • he can't pick up blades while invisible and he can't dash while he is invisible
  • when ult is at max rank the cooldown is 40 seconds
  • ult base damage lowered to about 70% at all ranks, bonus damage increased to 130% at second and third ranks, e.g. at max rank it will be 240(+260% bonus AD)
  • movement speed gained from his ult is multiplicative movement speed
  • at all lvls of his ult for the first .5 seconds of his ult he gains 90% multiplicative movement speed which decreases to the current movement speed that is there at all ranks

please also bring movement speed back to 350, ideal would be 355 - in addition to the above, increase his movement speed to 350, or ideally 355 which is the highest on any champ. Before he had a movement speed of 350 before the assassin update but was nerfed to 335 ever since which was a bit unnecessary considering he lost his blink which was a faster and and further reaching gab closer than his q. Personally I believe every assassin should have at least 350 movement speed in general considering they are assassins especially because there are a few none assassins that have 350 movement speed and are divers/juggernauts, yi and panth are the only champs with 355 ms which I can understand, but then theres 350 ms on champions like shyvana, nasus, and olaf and the only assassins who have 350 ms are kha'Zix, akali and shaco. The rest of the assassins should at the very least have 350 ms like these do even if there are other movement based things in their kit, if not doing it for the other assassins which should get 350 ms then at least make Talon have 350 ms like he used to, 355 would be ideal.

These changes result in him doing significantly weaker burst damage early game and is much less likely to one shot someone until lvl 13 because overall his potential all in damage is significantly weaker as his bleed damage is none existent until lvl 9, his none melee q is weaker, his rake is weaker early, his keen blade is only 20% of that weakened early rakes damage plus with the 400 range it will be very hard to land until level 9 along with his ult being weaker early because of the lower base damage; thus harder to snowball and be very ahead early on and less influence over closing out a game early. First bloods with Talon will be much more difficult to pull off compared to how he is considered arguably the best first blood champion in the game, and unless you play things really well in lane it will be much more difficult to pull off.

To try and get ahead he has to rely on making good trades and outplays in lane in addition to good roams even though his roams will be less impactful early because of his weaker early damage. His only compensate for lack of kill potential early is being able to use his dash to help in being unpredictable as well as avoiding skill shots and ganks, also because of his dash in the laning phase early game he can initiate from a slightly further distance although not often because of it's high cooldown early as well as his dash early is only a range of 200.

However he gets big spikes in power at lvl 9 and lvl 13 in which he gets significant improvements in his abilities and passive and he becomes a champion that snowballs well off of doing well in teamfights like yi and Katerina, but is not able to one shot and burst squishies down as fast as Kat, and not able to shred through tanks and sqiushies, and not able to blink like either of those two, but his strength would be in a combination of bursting people although on the lesser end of most assassins in "general common situations"while also having some a frequent poke and harass with his new projectile part of his w to help whittle people down in addition to more unpredictability in movement and and freedom to move because of his new dash, and being able to pick up blades that give him a slight movement speed increase when he does so; and I have "general common situations" in quotes because depending on how many stacks of keen blades he has, he can potentially, even though it will be rare, have a burst as high as an ahead assassin like Kat, fizz, Zed or kha, depending on how many stacks on his W keen blade that he has, which depends a lot on how he approaches a teamfight and how he decides to move and deciding to pick up blades or not, overall positioning , and avoiding danger while doing so in addition to landing skill shots particularly on his new W Keen Blade.

Ultimately this rework makes him so that instead of being good early game with a lot of damage, okay in mid game with a lot of damage, and weaker late game(like most assassins struggle late) with his damage falling off, with my rework he instead becomes weak early game but has things in his kit so that he can not be too useless early and can slightly better escape danger with the new dash in his E, leading to a good/really good mid game depending on how well he did early because of the natural increases in damage he gets at lvl 9 and lvl 13, and good/really good late game particularly because of his bleed damage increase to help in his damage before takedowns and his potential to do damage and avoid damage with his out play potentially especially after getting takedowns is much higher, with his primary advantages after early game being less about his ability to one shot someone because he did not snowball as hard but more on after getting some type of takedown in a fight being able to do much more in the fight after that and that increasing even further the more takedowns occur throughout the fight, as well as being able to go into a fight and survive trying to kill someone even if failed to kill them which is more likely to happen with this change.

Main reasoning behind suggesting this is for him to have more depth, creativity, a higher skill ceiling(regarding skill ceiling for example especially with deciding when/where to dash and deciding if should retrieve blades or not depending on positioning and how fight going, and landing keen blade skill shots especially in a teamfight and early before lvl 9 because it is hardest to do so with 400 range and also only does 20 % of rake damage early, plus it is more difficult to get ahead early because weaker with same cooldown reductions early, and if someone was not able to get ahead early then harder to kill champions quickly mid and late game because of weak early game even if can survive better and still make something happen if a takedown occurs it might not be good enough.

This change should overall feel more fun, cool, and rewarding to play especially with the extra projectiles and his new dash feature, as well as making it more challenging to actually be good with him and get ahead early like an assassin should despite having much less kill potential until hitting lvl 9, and being naturally behind at that time anyway because of less kill pressure. Unless you play things really well and are really good with him hence the high skill ceiling, and if he does get ahead early despite being weaker during that time because of his new kit, he will be much better at carrying and ending the game in mid game and if it goes into late game, because even though he has more mobility and ability to do damage with his w, if he is not able to utilize those strengths effectively, he will be very ineffective, which is where the higher skill ceiling and decision making, especially in teamfights, will come into play.

I am biased towards this new rework in this Talon; however I did try to make it so that he isn't unbalanced hence the big nerf to his early damage. So if the riot team decides to do this rework but decides what I suggested in his kit will make him too strong, then if you do nerf him, please only nerf the numbers for his damage, particularly his early to early/midgame damage(before lvl 13); please DO NOT nerf the actual cooldowns I have, or rake stacks or movement speed aspects or dashes and durations in etc.; simply only lower the numbers of his damage and nothing else to the extent you believe will balance him early game but make a level in which his potential to do burst eventually comes closer to current Talon with level and items. I would rather u sacrifice his potential to do damage in the early parts of a game than doing anything to affect how often he can use his abilities as well as the changes to his speed and cooldowns and benefits he gets from takedowns as well as not changing his potential to do damage at the earliest lvl 13 and beyond; whatever you nerf him in make it so that he simply does less burst damage early game. For example a Talon now vs Talon after this rework, the reworked Talon with the same amount of gold as the current Talon should be doing about the same at lvl 13 if he lands his new ability keen blade( a skillshot thus an aspect of making it harder to do his damage because of the chance he misses it, if he misses it will be about the same/slightly less at that lvl in comparision) after his using his normal rake; however the current Talon should almost always have more gold and be at a higher lvl than the reworked Talon I am presenting hence it is unlikely even at that point to do more in his burst; however he will make up for that with his mobility, decreases in cooldowns so he can use his next ability earlier as well as slightly better range so can do more things like rake more for often, and significant increases in teamfighting potential because of his takedown resets and ability to dash often as well are more ways he can be useful in a teamfight if he is unable to kill the person he is tries to kill by being faster and having better cooldowns and ability ranges.

What would separate a mediocre Talon to a godlike Talon is being able to get ahead and snowball early game despite it being much more difficult to do so, thus making it much more likely to secure a win because he will not fall off as much as the current Talon does in overall situations.

So if I had to rate the current Talon now in 3 categories from 1 to 10 with 10 being one of the best to 1 being one of the worst and 5 being adequate in the categories of 1 overall fast kill potential on squishy targets, 2 overall kill potential on more durable targets, 3 teamfight potential, 4 mobility and survivability, 5 overall snowball potential/ability to influence game if ahead early, and 6 effectiveness if at least not behind late game it would be respectively 10, 5, 8, 9, 10, 7 with a total of 49 for the current Talon. With this change to Talon I thought of I would rate it respectively as 7, 4, 10, 10, 7, 9 with a total of 47. If I had to go further with this then certain categories would have more value for having a high rating, with the one having the most value being overall fast kill potential on squishy targets, with my new Talon losing to current Talon by 3 points. Even though my Talon loses by 2 points overall and by 3 in the one that is most valuable being kill potential on squishy targets and is to say this change would be a nerf to him; however because of there definitely being a higher skill ceiling for this new Talon to make good use of his strengths and overall higher outplay potential, with someone who becomes very good with him it has the potential to be better.

Does Talon need any big changes? Many would say no he doesn't, especially compared to other champions. For me though, after the assassin update, even though I definitely enjoyed playing Talon more, I still really wish they changed a bit more with him like how I am suggesting, in addition to the other 3 main champions back in the assassin update being Kha, Rengar, and Leblanc. He was also the least played assassin out of those four in pro play overall since that change has happened if my memory is correct; not that that necessarily means he is a bad champion, but as far as his potential influence in the ideal team comp in pro play, at the highest level he was a champion that was and still is lacking. Not to mention 2 out of the four being Rengar and recently Leblanc, got some reverts(despite excelling in pro play at one point). Seeing those two got reverts despite their overall success at all skill levels since the assassin update, I believe it would be really interesting and fun for many who like Talon if my change were to be implemented and see how he turns out.

I know there are a lot of people who post suggestions of balancing champions and suggestions on champion changes and improvements and it's difficult to reply to them all, but considering I put a lot of thought and effort into this would someone from Riot that deals with the balance team give a reasonable response to my post, as well as if I am fortunate enough for it to actually be implemented in game about when would be the latest I could expect to play this new Talon?

On a side note and to help give incentive to this change, if with this update you released a skin I would definitely buy it just for the sake of being grateful to everyone in the balance team for bringing this about and overall enjoying the game so far since I started playing for almost three years now. If you do make a new skin, my current favorite skin that I always play with Talon is Dragon blade Talon, so it would be nice if it was something similar to that, or had a vibe like some other skins I like such as assassin master yi, shockblade zed, or acolyte lee sin.

Forgive me for any typos and grammatical errors, everything should have been fairly readable. Hope most people who read this liked my idea on this Talon change. Thanks for reading.

Edits, influenced by a lot by feedback:

Will go into more detail later, Can only post this at the moment, but basically editting out lvl 9 and lvl 13 ability changes, and having abilities damage and cooldown change according to rank, this makes more sense and is simply more reasonable

Q: instead of 600 range at lvl 9, range lowered to 400 at all levels, because of e's dash distance being 400 range at start instead of 200 and his speed increase when picking up blades, the extra range from his Q is not necessary

W: Rake - first part of rakes tick damage increases with level while second tick decreases with level, range is 700 instead of 650, base damage reduction at all levels

Keen Blade - cooldown between using keen blade stacks at 7 seconds at lvl 1, decreases with ability level, but upon hitting max level in W will be at 1 second, e.g. 7, 6, 5, 3, 1, hit box width lowered to 60-50%(not sure yet) instead of being at 70% because of having the 850 range early on

E - dash is 400 range at all ranks, but movement speed increase improves with abiltiy rank with first rank, 5%, 10%, 20%, 30%, 40% multiplicative movement speed for 1 second after dash

***** 2nd edit following up on first edit I said I would get back to, and likely my final large edit making to my original post

This edit has a very big change to the passive part of his W called Keen focus, and is the main thing I want people to take note of when reading, and aside from that it is nerfs in damage to his passive damage and damage with his W.

I believe any other changes in the future will be very small number changes in the base or scaling damage, but regarding his new kits concepts I believe this is the last major change to that and now it is fairly complete; however it ultimately depends on what Meddler and RiotRepertoir decide when they give me their feedback(hopefully they approve of the changes I have made so far). In the most recent devcorner Quick Gameplay Thoughts discussion, Meddler has replied to my comment by Tagging it for a later response, so I'm really looking forward to that.

Lastly Just making sure I point out that the other details in the original post above that I don't specifically make changes to will remain the same. For example, everything new about his ult in the original post that I've made no edits to so far, with especially the part in which when Talon ults that the circle in which the blades create around him also leave several Keen blades on the ground around him in that perimeter as well for him to pick up during a fight, that is still the same. Also additional details in his abilities, such as being able to have at most 11 stacks of Keen Blade in which that amount of stacks can only be achieved from successive takedowns, and can only increase stacks to 5 from picking blades up with both of those only possible from having W's keen focus passive activated from takedowns which lasts 10 seconds. Also the duration of Keen Blades staying on the ground is 10 seconds, and triggering bleed with 4 stacks of wound if landing a skill shot with Keen Blade; the various important changes to Talon such as those in the original post still stand, and I am mentioning some of those again in this paragraph specifically so that they aren't overlooked. That being said, what follows is likely the last big edit.

Passive: Nerf to Bleed damage

40 base damage at all levels removed( again because of no lvl 9 and lvl 13 changes) and it no longer has base damage scaling, and it only scales with bonus AD. It still starts at 50% bonus AD and increases gradually by about 10% bonus AD per level, so at max level it is now a flat 220% bonus AD

W: Nerf to rakes base damage which in turn lowers Keen Blades Damage, but an important and new change that buffs W's passive "Keen Focus" and makes takedowns more rewarding in fights even though it will be more difficult to achieve takedowns compared to what I stated in the details of his abilities in the original post.

Rake - Cooldown starts at 9 seconds, but decreases gradually with ability rank, at max rank cooldown will be 7 seconds, e.g. 9/8.5/8/7.5/7. Also mana cost slowly goes down with abiltiy rank; however his W starting mana cost is more than current Talons W starting mana cost.

e.g. Current Talon W mana cost - 55/60/65/70/75 updated Talon W mana cost - 75/70/65/55/40

Rakes base damage I said would be lowered even more in my first edit that I made yesterday because of removing lvl 9 and lvl 13 changes. I believe instead of 65% lowered base damage at all levels 50% lowered base damage at all levels would suffice for that, so at max level of W it would be 140 base damage(+130% bonus AD).

Keep in mind this also lowers the damage of Keen Blade as well which is based off of rakes damage. Keen blade is 70% of rakes total damage, going down to 60%, 50%, 40% of rakes total damage for each time it is used within 2 seconds of each other, and only resets back to the original 70% after waiting 2 seconds or upon getting a takedown

Keen Blade - The multiplicative speed bonus for 2 seconds when picking up blades increases with W ability rank, would be 10%/12%/14%/18%/25%

**Nerf to part of Keen Focus Passive - **His W passive which is triggered from takedowns that I explained in the original post, instead of rakes cooldown being reset to 1 second at all levels, takedowns will instead subtract 2 seconds from it's remaining cooldown, but it's cooldown can't be brought down any lower than 1 second from this

e.g. if Talon gets a takedown while rake has 4 seconds left on cooldown it will go down to 2 seconds, but in a situation such as if he has 2 seconds left on it's cooldown then it will only be lowered by 1 second rather than reseting Rakes cooldown

***** IMPORTANT UPDATE and buff to Keen focus passive - upon takedown which trigger Keen Focus passive for 10 seconds, Talon removes the static cooldown for his next 5 keen blades so that they can be used continuously with the only delay he has between Keen Blade casts during that is the abilities animation and cast time.

  • The limit is 5 keen blades and it can't go beyond 5 if he gets more takedowns, but further takedowns will refresh it and bring it back up to 5. For example if he gets a takedown while having 2 more keen blades he can throw without any cooldown, it will simply refresh itself and go back up to the next 5 keen blades.

Putting the above change into perspective, depending on how long the animation and cast time for Keen blade is(I would prefer it be less than or equal to rakes time) if it is the same as rakes cast time then he would be able to use 5 Keen Blades in under 2 seconds. With the damage being a percent of rakes total damage it would be 70%, 60%, 50%, 40%, 40%( as mentioned earlier Keen Blades used within 2 seconds of eachother do less down to a minimum of 40%) with a total of up 260% of Rakes total damage. In other words if each of the 5 skill shots landed, each Keen Blade would deal an average of 73 Base damage(+67% bonus AD), and would total 364 base damage(+338% bonus AD), with units being hit beyond the first receiving only 80% of the damage.

In The text below I explain why in this edit I did an overall nerf to his abilities damage, but gave a buff to his Keen focus passive that will fit more with the reworked Talon and also increase his skill ceiling even more:

So again, I want to emphasize that with my new Talon it will be much more difficult to kill someone quickly compared to current Talon because current Talon's damage will be able to quickly one shot someone, especially in early game; however if the new reworked Talon survives after getting a takedown on a target despite it taking longer and being more difficult to get that first takedown, after that first takedown happens if the enemy team is not careful and isn't avoiding those skill shots that will follow and isn't trying to zone him from picking up more blades that are on the ground, then the new reworked Talon will be getting another takedown soon after depending on the enemy team's ability to avoid the new reworked Talons keen blade skill shots, or on their ability to kill or use crowd control on him.

Alternatively this is another area in which his skill ceiling increase will be, because in addition to landing his Keen Blade W's, in a fight he will have to constantly adjust between fast decisions such as, " do I wait to do my 5 successive W skill shot right now or wait for a better opportunity and get into a better position? if I dash over to pick up those blades close to the enemy tank/sup will I get crowd controlled and die? I need to get out of this fight right now, but should I risk triggering my bleed passive with an auto since the target is at 3 wound stacks and not 4(need 4 stacks to use keen blade to trigger bleed passive) for the sake of lowering the cooldown of the dash on my E to dash out in a better direction? Should I cancel mid dash as a juke by pressing e twice during the first part of the animation then go elsewhere as a means of throwing the enemy off or get them into wasting a crucial ability? Do I even continue in the fight or back off despite activating my Keen Focus passive, and wait for a better opening/situation? At what time will the blades on the ground where I ulted expire so I don't wast my time going over there to get more Keen Blade Stacks and movement speed? Should I keep throwing out Blades from a distance or should I use E to dash and Q in to get in melee range and auto attack so I can kill the target as soon as possible?" etc. etc.

There will be just so much more depth to his play, especially in a teamfight situation, in which an average Talon might just be able to pull off one or two takedowns but ultimately lose the teamfight and die in the process, while someone who is close to mastering the new high skill ceiling with the new reworked Talon and would otherwise in the same teamfight situation have the potential to Ace the enemy team and get all 5 takedowns and survive if he plays it perfectly. That's the type of gameplay that, even though would make Talon more challenging and there is definitely more room for error, despite the current Talon being better early and at fairly simple quick one shots on the specific person being targeted, with the new reworked Talon if you make the right decisions and plays at the right time, especially during mid and late game, despite more room for error he also has a higher potential to be better and do more damage overall throughout the fight and be able to better close out a game in that regard.

Even though the high quick burst damage and one shot potential and early game snowball is lower for the Talon rework I am suggesting, he makes up for it in speed and potential intricacy of plays and with his potential overall damage if he lands his skill shots. Even though his damage is not in as high of a burst in damage as current Talon and securing kills will be more difficult, instead there is more importance in landing skill shots and making good and quick decisions with good actions per minute; therfore the new reworked Talon has the potential to be able to deal less quick burst damage, but instead if played well can potentially outdamage the current Talon overall and especially in teamfights, and potentially do more after his initial burst of damage particularly if he gets takedowns. Even though reworked Talon will be much more challenging, he will be very rewarding and enjoyable for players who like a challenge and find this type of champion more engaging.

11 Comments

Corvid4/20/2018, 7:31:52 PM4 votes

This is... not good. This doesn't sound fun at all.

BroLane4/19/2018, 4:52:27 AM3 votes

This is too complex. I'd rather get bug fixes on current Talon or a revert to old Talon.

Ramaero4/19/2018, 6:55:55 PM1 votes

Just wanted to add, people who like playing Talon or want to see changes in his kit, or both like myself, and especially if you are a Talon main like me, please let me hear your ideas on this.

The first person who commented mentioned the complexity of this; much of the descriptions in his ability is wordy clarification so there less oversights in what something does as well as getting a better idea of how it would play out in game. For example when I was elaborating on how his new alternate W called keen blade would look like, or going in depth on keen focus stacks. It really is not complex, as I mentioned earlier there are high skill and high learning curve champions such as Nidalee, Jayce, Riven, Leblanc or Azir that are just about equal to to even more complex than these changes with Talon; it only seems too intricate and elaborative because I made sure I went into a lot of detail on certain things I wanted people to understand more of the changes I am describing so we are on the same page as far as the new things Talon would be able to do compared to now, and making it highly unlikely for there to be any misconceptions for the changes.

Even though this is something I want riot to see, I want to hear more opinion's on this idea even if you do not play Talon. These changes seem reasonable and would help add to the variety of league of legends gameplay and would make Talon a more unique assassin that is less about quick burst, one shotting squishies, and early game, but is more about mobility, outplay potential, and teamfighting.

Even if you just read the ability descriptions part, I would really appreciate it if those who read this please let me hear your thoughts and any suggestions to the changes I am proposing for Talon.

edit: One thing I overlooked is even though the only cost to using keen blade are the stacks, being able to use it rapidly in quick succession if Talon has a lot of stacks will likely be too powerful. So an edit to this would be that he can use another keen black stack to use in W between every .5 seconds to every 1.5 seconds, unsure exactly what it would be, but I'd like to say 1 second between using a stack would be decent, but definitely no more than 1.5 seconds and no less than .5 seconds.

Ramaero4/20/2018, 8:56:19 PM1 votes

Made important edits at bottom of post, and I really wish I thought of this sooner. I was too caught up with him getting spikes in damage and utility at lvl 9 and lvl 13, when it's much more reasonable to streamline it in ability ranks in general. Even though I made the specific adjustments in the abilities, credit to MalrothDragonia on making me realize this approach is much better.

Ramaero4/21/2018, 10:09:51 PM1 votes

Just made a large 2nd edit to the original post with the major change being his W passive called Keen focus, and my fairly detailed explanation of the changes below. Aside from that in the edit I made specific nerfs with his Passive and W damage in addition to streamling his abilities into ability ranks, in large part because I removed the level 9 and 13 changes.