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Aatrox - Released a year and eight months ago - Has received only one update which gutted him

ZeronEve·2/18/2015, 2:36:21 PM·50 votes·4,707 views

TL;DR at the bottom.

I know there's some apparent worse examples of champions not getting updated in awhile (I've been told Trundle), but really now.

Brief History on Aatrox (w/some commentary)

On release, Aatrox was seen as (and perhaps still is) a pub stomper or low ELO stomper because no one knew how to play against him. Despite being dismissed as nothing more than that, professional players both in EU LCS and Korea eventually started playing him in the jungle. The likes of Cyanide, Diamond, and Aranae would take Aatrox into the jungle, while additionally he would see play in the top lane by Darien, Wickd, and maybe Soaz if memory serves. This kind of exposure would carry on in the Season 3 world championship where he would be picked or banned with some amount of consistency.

Then, a little over three weeks after worlds is when patch 3.13 came around.

Blood Well Passive attack speed changed to 30 / 35 / 40 / 45 / 50 / 55% from 50% flat. Blades of Torment Base damage reduced to 75 / 110 / 145 / 180 / 215 from 75 / 120 / 165 / 210 / 255.

with the justification:

Context: Any champion can be frustrating to play against when they’re capable of building very tanky while still outputting considerable DPS, so we're lowering some of Aatrox’s innate damage. With this change, Aatrox must build items for damage and won’t be able to simultaneously tank and smash face as easily.

This was extremely laughable at the time because there were plenty of champions who were (and still are) able to do this. Renekton, Jax, Shyvana, Mundo, Elise, Lee Sin, and Jarvan IV. Many of these champions could get away with either A. Building one damage item (Blade/Hydra) or B. Straight up free damage in the form of % health allowing them to build even more tanky if their kits didn't already include free stats (Jarvan IV who's just now being recognized in the PBE with armor nerfs, holy hell).

Since then, he's seen some play in the LCS albeit through the gimmick of "unfamiliarity". Most notably, Fredy122 still played him quite a bit during Season 4 in the top lane, and even drew bans on him regularly during Season 4 Worlds. I would say these bans are more "He's a wild card, and we have more important things to focus on in-game than him, so we'll take care of him with a ban." It's basically no different than when Darien would draw Warwick bans, Alliance (now Elements) would draw Rammus bans, and UOL would draw Hecarim bans.

I simultaneously love and hate that Fredy still plays him (although nowadays, not so much in the LCS). People use that as an excuse that he does not deserve an update, but his problems or cons that by far outweigh any of his pros are so very apparent when he is played, whether in or out of the LCS.

Riot on Aatrox

To my recollection, there are two instances where Riot has acknowledged Aatrox in the forums after his one update: One by Morello and another by Meddler.

Morello 02-18-2014 http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=45244229#45244229

We made some big game health mistakes on Aatrox that put him in a problematic spot - there's accuracy in the fact that if he's buffed, he'll be a problem.

We've had some Aatrox changes to solve this (as a soft rework sorta thing) that could fix this, and then let him get back into the game. I'll have to check on the details to see which direction we've taken with it (there were a lot of ideas on the table for it, originally).

Meddler 12-XX-2014 ("2 months ago" because new boards are vague as heck with their time stamps) http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/alR9fGRR-can-we-replace-aatroxs-ultimate-steroid-with-an-aoe-fear?comment=000c Meddler's post is a lot larger, but to summarize: He agrees that Aatrox's ultimate isn't as satisfying and good as an ultimate should be, acknowledges that a PBAoE Fear addition to Aatrox's ult has at least some thematic reasoning behind it, remarks on Aatrox as a Tank vs Aatrox as a Fighter, and concludes that his post isn't an indicator that there are upcoming Aatrox changes and that Aatrox is "overall in an ok spot." Apparently the rest of the Riot team who works on gameplay and balance agree with those sentiments as Aatrox has received only one significant change (the aforementioned) since his release (despite some "Aatrox changes" mentioned by Morello exactly a year ago). As it is now, Aatrox suffers from terrible base stats, terrible scaling/late game (AP ratio on his ultimate?), very low impact and unsatisfying ultimate (backed by Meddler), getting kited too easily, bad 5v5 teamfights, and a bunch of other things.

To all those wanting to cite Shook using him in the LCS, suffice it to say:

  1. Shook didn't need to take advantage of Aatrox's sustain early (where most junglers struggle, sustain junglers thrive) because he had Wickd and Nyph help him with both Gromp and Blue.

  2. Shook couldn't even take advantage of a sneaky/cheesy level 2-3 solo dragon because of the lane swap.

  3. Any participation he had in kills, assists, and team fights could have been done better and have had more of an impact with a different jungler (just watch how he's ignored at 14:15).

  4. Just because he's picked doesn't mean he's actually a strong pick or worth using. Don't oust him from a rework or buff just because he's picked and other champions are not.

Aatrox's problems are still there and Shook highlighted one of them where you do basically no damage if you build tanky and have little impact (contrast with Gnar and Rek'sai). One problem of many.

TL;DR: As it is now, Aatrox suffers from terrible base stats, terrible scaling/late game (AP ratio on his ultimate?), very low impact and unsatisfying ultimate (backed by Meddler), getting kited too easily, bad 5v5 teamfights, and a bunch of other things. Aatrox is a champion that should be re-worked as it's so apparent that his design is clearly creating problems for the balance team (as per Morello), but I think Riot thinks it's far too early for that when so many older champions do deserve the attention. That said, I don't think he should be completely ignored as he has been, and I think his ultimate (as per Meddler) is a good place to start at least. I don't believe for a second that he should be ousted from any sort of update just because he was played in the LCS once this season.

65 Comments

Flytrap2/18/2015, 7:58:24 PM7 votes

The game has always been like this. Some champions are just forgotten and sit in a corner for years until Riot remembers that they actually exist.

Example: Quinn

Messaiga2/18/2015, 9:07:14 PM6 votes

Right now Aatrox really doesn't have any specialty either. Other champions have revive passives, knock-ups, gap closers, slows, sustain, etc. There's no reason to pick him when you could pick another champion and do everything Aatrox does but better. Once they get around to reworking him, they need to give him something unique that no other champion has in their kit (and I'm not talking about the bs that is Kalista passive or having 5 passives or something).

Firstly, lets look at Aatrox's current role. He's a bruiser intended to be a strong duelist and is good at splitpushing. We already have plenty of those (Jax, Shyvana, Nasus, Tryndamere, Trundle, etc) and Aatrox is not contending well in that category. Perhaps he should be pushed away from dueling and be changed to suit a different play-style?

Now, lets look at his lore:

Just when all hope seemed lost, Aatrox appeared among the ranks of the Protectorate. With but a few words, he urged the soldiers to fight to the last before throwing himself into battle. His presence inspired the desperate warriors. At first, they could only watch in awe as this unknown hero cleaved through their enemies, his body and blade moving in unison as if one being. Soon, the warriors found themselves imbued with a potent thirst for battle. They followed Aatrox into the fray, each fighting with the furious strength of ten until they had won a most unlikely victory.

That paragraph leads me to believe that he would prefer to stay with his team rather than going off on his own and fighting each individual person. Perhaps his strength should be in teamfights, like Jarvan? Granted, there would be much about him that is different since he wouldn't be bringing as much utility in the form of crowd control and Jarvan's unique terrain. What he could bring that Jarvan doesn't bring? Higher DPS (but lower burst), sustain (for himself and his team), no mana, better sticking power. This leads me to this concept for his Ultimate.

Massacre: Aatrox inspires a lust to fight in his allies, causing Aatrox and nearby allied champions (Area of 800 units) to heal for X%/X%/X% of damage dealt to enemy champions from any source. Additionally, Aatrox gains 175 attack range and his auto-attacks deal 50%/62.5%/75% of their damage as physical damage in an AOE around his primary target. These effects last for 12 seconds.

Essentially this gives him a huge AOE damage presence in team fights and allows his team to fight even when at low HP as long as heavy burst abilities are available. In contrast, this ability wouldn't be too useful in situations where you are dueling someone. Massacre would probably have a hefty cooldown if it were to have that much power.

For his basic kit all I can really say is that his laning phase isn't very healthy for the game since he can harass freely with his E while keeping himself near full HP with his W's free healing, and his revive has got to go if we want him to be strong. Either remove his free healing every 3 basic attacks (and give him some other form of sustain to compensate for HP costs), or remove his free harass. Heck, doing both and compensating him appropriately would allow a large amount of power to be put into his kit.

TL;DR Aatrox's current iteration isn't very healthy for the game, he should be reworked to be a strong team-fighting bruiser with a focus on DPS and sustain, his built-in GA should be removed and replaced with something.

cFlame2/18/2015, 7:35:24 PM6 votes

Make his passive revive OPTIONAL. Sometimes players don't want to revive themselves so that they die to the jungler and Darius top with 50% mana. Sometimes people want to save that for a specific objective in mind with their teammates (Killing Zed under tower.) Aatrox players should be able to choose if they want to revive and see what they can do with that, rather than being ganked and you fail to flee so your revive pops up and you die anyways. Not only is it silly, but it adds time to how long his death is. That's the exact opposite of snowballing.

Junkο2/18/2015, 7:25:08 PM3 votes

I don't know why Riot even released Aatrox. We already had Vladimir in the game prove that a manaless champion with self sustain is broken which lead to gutting of him and spellvamp (granted some other champs like Morde could use it too). And then they release somebody who lifesteals every 3rd attack for free and is doubled if below half health, GA passive and a big AS steroid to help him lifesteal even faster.

Not saying he is OP or anything now, but most top laners that aren't meta can't keep up with his sustain at all, even some meta ones can't.

Saianna2/18/2015, 8:02:53 PM3 votes

One word to describe something far worse than where Aatrox currently is: Evelynn

Assassin with not even 1 assasin ability.

Assassin built as a tank

Assassin that was guted cause she assassinated ppl

Assassin that cannot lane

Nor Jungle

HeraldOne2/18/2015, 3:11:31 PM2 votes

[deleted]

VDc0zCqe0w2/18/2015, 9:09:42 PM2 votes

i love when people that got zero clue on what they are saying come and say "URGOT IS COMPLETELY VIABLE, that oceanic team played him in a bo1 that meant absolutely nothing and it had zero impact, might as well played Blitz adc, but trust me, he is COMPLETELY fine, you just have to get good at him"

basically what happens whenver someone says Aatrox is bad someone comes and says "BUT FREDY"

1999 01 172/18/2015, 10:05:58 PM2 votes

aatrox e is seriously the wimpiest ability in the game. the animation is so weak, it moves so slowly, and does no damage

Evandir2/19/2015, 1:22:47 AM2 votes

Aatrox is balanced. He is not weak at all. He has a unique play style that is difficult to adapt to, but people don't put in the effort to learn him because of his desceptivly high learning curve. New aatrox players will put in a few games as him, fail miserably,(because they don't know how to play him yet) then dismiss him as a weak pick.

One thing people don't get about him is that he is one of the most versatile champions of his class. He has the ability to function as a sustain/peel tank in a kite/poke comp and prevent enemy tanks/ fighters from cc/killing his carries with aoe peel while outlasting the enemy frontline.

If your team already has a tank, he can built as a sustain fighter to disrupt the enemy back line while dealing lots of damage with his ridiculous AS from both his passive and his ult. He can initiate with his q if his tank isn't in position, soak up damage, and come back with his passive. He can also be built as a high dps carry that can swoop in after the enemy has used their cc and damage spells to clean up the fight.

The problem is that people don't take the time needed with him to fully understand when he should be built a certain way in/and against certain comps and what you can and can't do given those circumstances.

Tldr he has a higher skillcap than you give him credit for

KaisadiIIa2/19/2015, 3:00:18 AM2 votes

LOL just read this post at reddit.

Aatrox has suffered the same of almost every new champion lately:

  • RIOT releases a champion, it's completely new so people can't play it properly, thus they think he's underpowered and they stop playing him.
  • People who actually enjoyed that champion continues playing him, mastering him eventually. As this champion is new, people don't know how to play against them and they start complaining he's overpowered and broken now.
  • RIOT insta-nerves that champion to oblivion.

(It is worth to say that, when the champion is really hard, they buff him to nerf him even more later.) Aatrox nerf wasn't justified and they should just revert him back to his previous stats.

The problem is that lately RIOT has adopted a policy that is: "As fast as something becomes gimmicky, nerf it immediately". They don't give time to the player base to learn how to play against them. And the worst part about this is that people is now used to things being insta-nerved, so, when something new because popular, people don't even try to counter it and just go to the forums asking for nerves.

MarkedOfKane2/20/2015, 2:36:05 AM1 votes

Here is what I would do.

Make his Q not cost anything. Make it so he always follows through with the jump instead of getting stunned out of it.

His E shoots two blades and at max range, it is awkward to hit. It is normally just for utility but what if both blades hit, it would deal bonus damage.

Raptamei2/20/2015, 6:24:11 AM1 votes

Honestly? He's not toxic, so they should leave him alone.

I'm tired of watching champions get reworked just because Riot doesn't like them, ignoring the thousands of people who main them. (A champion mained by just 0.5% of the playerbase has 150,000 fans)

Does he break the game? No. Is he another Poppy? No. So don't rework nerf him.

I do play Aatrox a lot, and he has some odd design choices but that's the Aatrox player's choice to accept, right? It doesn't warrant completely changing him (at best) or making him useless or unfun to play as (at worst, but that seems to be the fate of most reworks lately).

Especially when so many champions either have no weaknesses (Lee Sin, Zed, Jarvan) or are actually toxic (Poppy, Urgot) which are much more important reasons for a rework than "Aatrox has 2 AS steroids and it looks ugly".

Wirius2/20/2015, 6:28:40 AM1 votes

Aatrox was a horribly designed champion, and Riot knows it. A champion who has boring moves and essentially relies on stats just doesn't cut it anymore.

Joe Dredd2/18/2015, 8:52:25 PM1 votes

If you hover over the - 2 months ago, it'll show the exact date to the second.

j j2/19/2015, 1:43:52 PM1 votes

He's okay in his current spot needs minor changes to be viable again.

Yandere Carry2/19/2015, 5:01:13 PM1 votes

his was extremely laughable at the time because there were plenty of champions who were (and still are) able to do this. Renekton, Jax, Shyvana, Mundo, Elise, Lee Sin, and Jarvan IV. Many of these champions could get away with either A. Building one damage item (Blade/Hydra) or B.

Wrong. Jax and Mundo are weak early, Renekton, elise, and lee sin are all bad lategame unless they get fed as fuck. shyvana nerfs made it so her early game isnt as great anymore and she sacrifices cc and mobility

Borbland2/19/2015, 6:07:21 PM1 votes

I think Aatrox is balanced now, but his gameplay is just boring.

Right click based like Master Yi, except he costs 6300 IP...

Knight SoIaire 2/19/2015, 6:14:31 PM1 votes

i wouldnt call his problems the lack of power but the additional punioshments he gets when he itemizes build hp you increase you hp costs and deal no damage build damage you can get remowed by a stray skillshot and any hp point you spend on your skills hurts you more

basicaly aatrox needs to itemize everything, and everything he itemizes has some drawback tied to it he is the weirdest and most unpredictable ball of power ever

Droogzy2/19/2015, 6:29:14 PM1 votes

My issue with Aatrox is he's a feast or famine champion right now. If I get ahead with him, I think he's probably one of the most unstoppable champions I've played, you can take out people so quickly, much like any other fed person, but the thing about him though is that when they take you down, GA revives you again, then you can continue to massacre and sustaining through a fight.

But if he falls behind, he becomes useless, dies when he tries to go in, then dies again when his GA goes up.

I think he's in a similar spot to Evelynn, although her situation is much more dire. His passive is holding up a large chunk of his budget power, which doesn't show directly in team fights or dueling until you die. If they were to remove his passive, I think they could look into making him more powerful.

Mannysmoker2/19/2015, 8:33:27 PM1 votes

I agree he needs a some work, Aatrox is my favourite champ , but he's not very satisfying to play, his stats are kinda garbage, and u feel very underwhelmed the entire match..

Xela Syab2/19/2015, 9:25:50 PM1 votes

hey atleast his knockup works, xin players been wanting that for 2 weeks now

XinZhao2WinNhao2/19/2015, 9:47:59 PM1 votes

aatrox needs a buff though. maybe something like a cooldown reset. his cooldowns are way long