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Why has ekko not been nerfed?

Ôrîon··60 votes·16,161 views

Ekko as of patch 10.2 has been a top tier jungler, high and low elo. I do not mean he has just been barely edging out the competition, he has been completely blowing them out of the water!

According to Champion.gg Ekko is the second most played jungler at 9% and has a win rate of 52%, the Champions kit and base damage has even allowed him to get away with running dark Harvest as the meta rune, which up until recently was always viewed as an iffy rune because it's sacrifices significant base damage for potential scaling. Due to the nature of Ekkos kit and consistently he can gain dark Harvest Stacks at virtually no risk, turning potential scaling into guaranteed scaling, with no real sacrifice because Ekkos base damage is so high.

However the biggest problem with Ekko is the Champions kit in general, because of Ekkos Ultimate Echo players can have a zero consequence play style. There are numerous champions in the game that are rewards for making the right decision my favorite example of this is Aurelion Sol. Aurelion Sol is fundamentally balanced upon making the right decision for your team, and the champion has a little mechanical difficulty to counteract that. A lot of the counter play is game knowledge and understanding how the Aurelion Sol is going to play out the game.

Because of this when a superior player plays Aurelion Sol it feels very overwhelming, for there is little room for mechanical out play when you're constantly getting out macroed.

However the champion is not without causality. For example if the Aurelion Sol roams bot and it goes bad, there is a serious negative consequence for that, or just roaming In general when the champion leaves Lane they give plates and pressure.

However due to the nature of jungle in low ELO there is very little consequence for having poor positioning, at worst you lose a dragon if you show top at the wrong time.

So for example if an Ekko randomly decides to gank top even though dragon is spawning and bot lane is winning, he will still get a dark Harvest stack or a kill, even if he's ganking a full health Renekton who has been winning lane all game, because there's no possible way for the Renekton to actually kill him or punish him for his mistake. If the Ekko takes too much damage he will just use his ultimate to regen and reposition, if the Renekton hard commits there's a decent chance that he ends up going 1 for 1 or 1 for 0. And yea maybe your team gets dragon, but so what. Its 1 dragon. Unless its a water dragon it will not impact that lane phase significantly.

Even if you counter gank an Ekko it doesn't matter the second he realizes he's out of position he will just ult. And yeah it's like as an Ekko that's frustrating to not get anything but as the entire enemy team it's it's frustrating to not get anything, but the real problem is that any champion in the game other than Ekko would have been dead for making the poor choices, Ekko kit has created a champion that has virtually no consequences for his actions, even the most idiotic jungler will go even because it's impossible to go negative on Ekko.

It's like bad Ekkos don't get punished for being bad they just don't get rewarded for being good.

If I was playing Lee Sin and I got counter ganked after committing to a gank I would be dead. if I was playing Olaf and I Tower dived and they used barrier I would be dead. if I was playing kha'zix and I jumped over the wall into the entire enemy team, dead. if I was playing Rengar and I jumped into the Baron pit with flash down, dead.

But if I was playing Ekko in any of these situations I would be just fine.

So whats the trade off?... Exactly

The base cooldown for Ekko ult is 110 seconds, which means approximately 1 and a half clear in between each ult, The jungle item will give him 10% cooldown reduction so his ult is normal base 99 seconds, because he will have runic Echoes by the time he hits level 6 or 7. So Ekkos ultimate is approximately 1 minute and 30 seconds, Gromp spawns every 1 minute and 40 seconds, so an Ekko that understands his pathing will have his ultimate Almost 100% of the ganks he makes, making it to where there's no compounding interest for screwing up over and over again. On any other Champion if you go into a lane and just int you have to flash or die, which makes it to where going into another Lane and screwing up again means you die. Ekko does not have this problem.

The worst part about all of this is the only part about Ekko that takes skill is the one part that doesn't really matter, that is his W because he is being played as a jungle right now he doesn't actually have to land a W in order to a ensure kill, as a mid lane Ekko it's important to land your w else you'll just get cc'd and the person will combo you and walk away, and you hard lose the trade.

However as of late playing Ekko as a jungler has completely remove the skill expression. All he has to do is W in the general vicinity to get it big ass Shield, and then if the enemy chooses to CC Ekko it doesn't matter because he has a huge Shield and he still has a laner to keep doing damage to punish them for choosing to CC the jungler. In addition to that there's no reason to set up a big Womb ults where you kill the entire enemy team, because presumably you have a mid laner that's doing decent. Hoe is going to do that anyways. Diana Fizz Yasuo

I don't get paid to balance league, however I have thought up some ideas.

  1. His movement speed gets nerfed to make landing W more impactful. His W could even get a buff like maybe attack speed when you stun a Target, Or damage amp.
  2. His Ultimate Health gain gives significantly less health, this way when you force Ekko ult out most of the time he's also going to have to recall, if he had made a gross mistake. this will allow your team to raise Tempo and force objectives, adding slightly more consequence to Ekkos actions.

I feel like Ekko is an example of poor balance and Design he seems very out of line with the game design values specifically impactful decisions, I understand that a lot of this is what Ekko is supposed to be a champion that removes his consequence, however League of Legends is also a competitive game. At the moment it feels as if a Ekko is a champion that just rolls the dice until they win, except unlike every single Champion there's no consequence when they roll 1, they just get to reroll, and when they roll a 20 they win the game. Do you feel the same?

60 Comments

Crescent Dusk23 votes

The solution is quite simple. Make his shield stun only work on enemy champions. Disabling it from monsters will move him out of the jungle.

Ahri Body Pillow7 votes

Not really. Because his shield will probably soak up any damage the monsters would do him instead of being stunned.

Remove his double passive damage against monsters (not epic monsters) and bam. Ekko jungle is kneecapped.

Also revert his R cooldown buff.

Caretaker Jack1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Crescent Dusk,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8keFAixJ,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2020-01-25T07:07:12.687+0000)

The solution is quite simple. Make his shield stun only work on enemy champions. Disabling it from monsters will move him out of the jungle.

The problem is they don't want him out of the jungle.

LTK KoRo1 votes

this change would absolutely nothing to his jungle prowess

xelaker3 votes

It still gives him a huge shield. Remove the shield from it.

Crescent Dusk1 votes

{quoted}

It still gives him a huge shield. Remove the shield from it.

I prefer the suggestion from another poster here. Remove the shield stun and passive proc off jungle monsters.

We are trying to get him out of the jungle, not delete him altogether from mid lane as well.

xelaker1 votes

The shield is what lets him jungle, not the stun...

Infernape3 votes

{quoted}

The shield is what lets him jungle, not the stun...

It's neither actually. It's his passive damage to monsters. It deals 200% damage to monsters.

LordGeovanni1 votes

Its definitely the stun as you cant miss the stun and the stun lasts as long as the shield making the shield effectively useless in the jungle out side of epic monsters and champion V champion fights. But ill tell you what removing his shield would keep him from going right back top lane.

Ahri Body Pillow2 votes

that is the worst idea for balancing Ekko I have ever heard in my life.

xelaker1 votes

coming from an ekko main... wow who'd have guessed the ekko main wants to keep his busted champ? lol

Ahri Body Pillow1 votes

if you bothered to read the thread i've offered ideas to nerf his jungle.

Removing his W shield would make it completely useless ability late game. if you don't stun more than half of the team then as soon as you jump on whoever you just stunned you're going to get obliterated.

xelaker1 votes

I have read other ideas and gave my own, and oh no you wouldn't get a massive shield with your aoe stun?? However R would R you R be R able R to R get R out R a R sticky R situation?? R

Ahri Body Pillow1 votes

Why not just revert the R cd buff? He wasnt a problem before that. His W shield was never touched...

Śhunpo21 votes

Tbh he NEEDS to have his ultimate cooldown buff reverted. Seriously, ~60 seconds at rank 2 for an ultimate as powerful as Ekko's is ridiculous.

LordGeovanni1 votes

So is Lux's ult and its lower at all points But people wont ever talk about it cause its just damage it also activates her passive so its actually more than the listed damage and unlike ekko Her combo is fast and secure Her q is really easy to hit and secure's her ult while Ekko's Combo takes much longer to land and is much less secure He can hardly use his ult for damage. He needs a Longer ult cooldown but he cant get a longer ult cooldown without other mages also eating ult cooldown

Śhunpo1 votes

Hard disagree, especially since you're using Lux as your textbook example.

I hate mages and all that, but hey, at least their ults don't turn them into extremely safe snowball carries.

LordGeovanni1 votes

Not being in range to get burst is far more safe then having to get burst and getting out without geting anything since you cant use your ult to secure kills 4 seconds behind you. Your ult has an effective 5 second cast time to use for damage it deserves to do some big damage In comparison to other mages (but mage items on the whole need lowering effectiveness Mage ratios need to lower and Magic pen needs to not be as strong while magic resist needs to be better. all of those need to happen thats how broken magic damage is.)

Śhunpo1 votes

Your ult has an effective 5 second cast time to use

Are we talking about Ekko here? If so, his ult isn't primarily used for damage, it's a get-out-of-jail free card as opposed to a damaging ability.

LordGeovanni1 votes

Its primarily used for its secondary function becuase its primary function is stupid hard to get to work unlike click enemy character and delete health bar or pop a big defensive move that wont be up for your next combo.

PhearBunny11 votes

Ekko is currently the flashiest, biggest play maker of dark skinned champions. He will remain severely broken for a while.

Trias0009 votes

Because 200 years of experience, duh

I remember when around season 3-5 Lee Sin was by far the best jungler. He was simply destroying the opposition. It took Riot a few months to finally nerf him. After that... he was still the best jungler.

Riot's "balance team" is either clueless or they do this on purpose.

Wild Geese8 votes

Ekko has been too strong for well over half a year now and haven't heard a thing. At this point I'm expecting Riot to buff him again next up.

2gudaiya7 votes

skins meta, also everyone was asking for ekko to get buffed despite him already getting buffed.

RebeccaUCuber6 votes

True dmg selling $$$

Seriously, he dominatore mid/Jung even in High elo and still he Is not touched.

They Just adjust want they WANT to adjust. Balance doesn't exist.

Garson2116 votes

Skins bro.

FrankShadoww4 votes

I agree Ekko needs some nerfs he's too safe of a character. Personally I think an interesting idea is his ult doesn't heal him and rather puts him in the exact state he was 5 seconds ago so if he was 500hp and got healed to 700 his ult would set him back to 500 again or visa versa. That way a counter to his ult would be to poke him but he still can get a free dive if he does it quick enough.

Ahri Body Pillow3 votes

Ekko is overpowered for sure, but it's a numbers thing. This ranting about his ultimate is nonsensical. If you're using it purely as an escape tool then you're actually missing out on like half of his possible damage.

Your ideas for "balancing" Ekko's ultimate are laughably bad.

ProphetOfDraven3 votes

Ekko needs to be gutted out of the jungle, force him to play out his bad laning phase and not get free scaling from the jungle and getting to take numbers advantage fights all around the map to easily get fed.

On My Kill List3 votes

why'd ekko need a nerf? he's only a problem in lower level play. ekko has almost no influence the higher up the skill ladder you go. he's become a low elo pub stomp champ nowadays. he's annoying but he's always been annoying so thats nothing new. until he becomes a problem in pro play ekko won't need any nerfs. there'll always be champs like ekko who'll always have high numbers due to the nature of their kit.(punishing those make mistakes heavily) it'd be a waste of riots resources to nerf him. plus i believe ekko is healthier in the jungle then mid. if only because whenever he's viable mid that means he's oppressive on a base line level right now his mid is OK not 100% viable while his jungle is where most of his power is at. ekko mid has resource/sustain issues and if ganked/camped early becomes an impossible to win lane for the ekko player as he'll just continue feeding again and again;leading to a demoralizing situation where the ekko player feels like killing himself;ekko jungle also has this problem too;whenever an ekko jungle fails at his job it feels like a 4vs5. if anything riot will end up buffing mid ekko if you do get that jungle ekko nerf. the main reason ekko went to the jungle is the previous nerf to his passive(removal of its slowing component) that while needed since it made him oppressive also kinda screwed his mid lane trade patterns. the only things i could see riot buffing on ekko are his q1 his ult (not the cd but the health return) and his passive. not to mention ekko can actually be outplayed. you can dodge ekkos q and his w.

Vanic9982 votes

The stupid part is, he should have never existed. He has a cricket bat as a weapon, generic boomerang ability #3598, generic 3 hit passive #2947, a slow/stun/shield ability for idk why, and an op ult. The only thing unique about him is his E.

The thigh guy2 votes

Because riot wants the flashy champions to be played in the lc$. And ekko is the starting point of champions all going to shit and being overloaded out their asses.

Lippoutou Club2 votes

Riot don't want balance, stop dreaming. Same heads are top tiers since the last 31th February.

Morgana Yasuo MasterYi Darius et caetera. How can you believe they want balance ?

LoL erased Karma. Two months later they'll rebuff her so they'll buy her skins.

Crescent Dusk1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lippoutou Club,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8keFAixJ,comment-id=0014,timestamp=2020-01-25T21:47:11.128+0000)

Riot don't want balance, stop dreaming. Same heads are top tiers since the last 31th February.

Morgana Yasuo MasterYi Darius et caetera. How can you believe they want balance ?

LoL erased Karma. Two months later they'll rebuff her so they'll buy her skins.

Karma top then was disgusting, but instead of finally placing gold/xp filters per champion class on lanes for first 10 minutes so champion classes would stay on their intended lanes, they gut champions in numbers and make them disappear altogether, like Camille.

Lippoutou Club1 votes

Karma top wasn't a bigger threat than Lissandra. She has always been way less dangerous than the current toptier top Fiora Darius Mordekaiser.

but she has the support tag "Oh a support shouldn't do that."

I just wait for the moment they'll scr%w Morgana, just to be sure she definitely leave the middle lane. Typical Riot's project.

Crescent Dusk1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lippoutou Club,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8keFAixJ,comment-id=001400000000,timestamp=2020-01-25T22:29:51.009+0000)

Karma top wasn't a bigger threat than Lissandra. She has always been way less dangerous than the current toptier top Fiora Darius Mordekaiser.

but she has the support tag "Oh a support shouldn't do that."

I just wait for the moment they'll scr%w Morgana, just to be sure she definitely leave the middle lane. Typical Riot's project.

Lissandra is absolute garbage top lane, even with aftershock. She has low range, large mana costs, and a single root. I constantly stomped her on Garen because with Lissandra you just save your CC/tenacity for her root to gut her kiting and a single trade is half her health.

Karma has a considerably longer range, and with her previous buffs she was moving faster than an ulted Yi on top of having a strong shield, a root, and great poke+waveclear.

The fact is, ranged champs other than Teemo and Gnar shouldn't belong in top lane, just as adc's shouldn't be in mid lane either (Lucian and Tristana mid are monstrosities that should be eradicated).

And karma should be fixed to be viable mid like Brand and Zyra.

Kadexe2 votes

I think there's someone on the balance team that direly wants to see Ekko played in LCS.

Jack Eron1 votes

Can people every stop crying about winrates? Always around 50%, you rather win or lose, you have bad team or good. You can be the best with the highest winrate champ and still can lose easily. Stop this nonsense. Ekko shows where will he land, his Q is easy to dodge. Every champions has counters, you can play safe, ward more. Nothing is wrong with ekko.

Gath Immortal4 votes

other than the fact that he can 1v1 nocturne, a natural hard counter, because his burst is so fucking insanely high he can't lifesteal + passive heal + spell shield through it and even if he did lose the trade by some miracle, after 6 his ult makes it completely irrelevant. Ekko is broken in the worst ways.

ProphetOfDraven4 votes

Have you ever played this game? Ekko E2 + Lich bane + Protobelt + W passive + Dark Harvest will nearly oneshot any squishy even when he's not fed. He doesn't need his W and his Q barely matters. He doesn't need his ult damage either ( not to mention it has a 150% AP ratio ). I've played Ekko JG before and the champion is literally playing the game on easy mode. FFS even down to his E1, which takes absolutely no skill to use compared to Aatrox and Sylas's dashes.

Jack Eron1 votes

Man, if you have 2 items, you profinished your boots as well. It means the game is on like 20 or more min ago, so what are you talking about? After 20 min with 2 items most burst mages should take insane damage, and they will. Even if they are not fed, but don't tell me that you farmed your shoe and 2 items from minions only, without taking any kills.

ProphetOfDraven2 votes

Except these other burst mages don't have a shield, two dashes, full health heal, and a 2.25 second stun.

Jack Eron2 votes

Most of them ACTUALLY has pretty nice stuns, and bigger range which means they can play safely against ekko. Also ekko gets almost full hp heal only after like 2-3 items. But literally all mages are broken after a few items. You can buy protobelt as well so you will have a dash too. And once again, with bigger range you should def easily. Dont tell me that an ekko would fk you when you are brand, zilean, ziggs, veigar xerath...

You can like sit under your turret and farm.

ProphetOfDraven2 votes

Yeah but does protobelt proc my instagib passive? Also you name some of the champions Ekko destroys the most, immobile squishys. You realize you cant farm under turret for the entirety of the game right?

Jack Eron1 votes

You cant go in safe with ekko without your W but your enemy has a lot time to react it. Your Q is also slow. How do you destroy a ziggs who plays safe? Pookes you from insane dmg, has W to knock you or himself, has E to slow you.

Xerath also, you can only get close to him if he makes a mistake... thats true for veigar as well, and zilean is the safest choice. Epic slow or speedup, cc, range, revive.

If you always look on every champs as their masters are stupid as hell, then i can say nerf all champs. Because i can delete anyone with veigar if they cant play or build. Or with any champs.

Infernape1 votes

Revert the W buff and lower his passive damage bonus on monsters. He was perfectly fine before Riot buffed the shit out of his W.

TheGreatNinx1 votes

This is what happens when you get a champion buff on every patch to eventually push him to OP. Like before I would struggle as mid Ekko with the laning phase and now its so easy to win lane and when I get auto-filled Jungle I pick ekko and do better then someone who actually plays the role because he wins so early and his base damage is just too high. I remember when it used to take more skill to play him then what his current is. It's a joke but when then again the balance team has always been a joke.

Mizuno1 votes

I propose the following nerfs for Ekko :

  • Passive changed from 50-80% ms for 2-3 sec to 50% ms for 2 sec.
  • Q slow changed from 32-60% to 30-50%.
  • W stun duration reduced from 2.25 sec to 2 sec.
  • Ult CD reverted from 110-50 sec to 110-70 sec and AP ratio reduced from 150% to 100%.

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