Unpopular opinion:Conqueror isn't the main reason Cassiopeia is broken

SpherezTheMan·Jan 30, 2020·10 votes·10,020 views

Cass main here. As the title says,i don't think conqueror is the main reason she's so insanely broken.Sure it makes her overbearing but what makes her broken is a combination of other things.

First,let's talk about Presence of mind.So basically,for each kill it gives you 100 mana with a cap limit of 500.I honestly don't know why this rune was changed,as it offers way too much and synrgyses too well with Seraph's.That 100 mana when you get a kill really makes a difference for me in the laning phase.Besides that,it also restores 20% of your maximum mana for a kill,which is really useful for pushing the minion wave after an early kill.

Then there is legend tenacity.One of Cassiopeia's weaknesses was always cc,since she can't buy mercury tread's and this rune negates that weakness.There have been countless time's where i survived because of this rune and it really constributes to cassiopeia's current strenght

Lastly,there is the W change made a while ago.Basically,they removed the minimal cast range on her W ,while nerfing the range,radius and slow with it. I don't know what Riot was thinking with this change,because Cass was completely fine back then,she didn't need any changes. I honestly believe this is one of the main reasons she's so broken rn. Her weakness was always close range and this change removed that.Whenever an assasin or other champions jump on you,just press W on them and they're a sitting duck.It honestly feels unfair most of the time because of how easy it is to kill them like that.In my opinion,the old W was much more healthier and had much more counterplay than now.This is also the reason she's picked more on top lane,a lane where she doesn't belong.

Im predicting there will be Cass nerfs soon and i hope Riot doesn't make her unplayable and make mindless decisions like we've seen many times before with other champions. Here are some nerf suggestions:

-Make mages unable to use or nerf conqueror.This change will make her unable to pick the Precision tree and therefore,she won't be able to pick Presece of mind and Legend tenacity

-Revert the miasma change.This will fix many of her issues especially in toplane and will add more counterplay to her.

-If that doesn't work(which i doubt it won't) then nerf either her early . She's supposed to be a scaling champion

These nerfs mostly fix the problems she has right now and will add much more counterplay to her. Tell me what you guys think about this.

31 Comments

RagnaveilJan 30, 20207 votes

The problem is how much healing Twin Fang's spam gives her on top of Conq's healing, but now i'll say it right now: Rav hunter healing on her is probably what breaks her harder. If she could lose more mana from spamming it willy nilly (same should apply to Ryze EQ bullshit), then there would be some counterplay to it. Right now, she can just spam away without a care in the world because of Tear and Cata passive when she takes damage.

SpherezTheManJan 30, 20204 votes

{quoted}

The problem is how much healing Twin Fang's spam gives her on top of Conq's healing, but now i'll say it right now: Rav hunter healing on her is probably what breaks her harder. If she could lose more mana from spamming it willy nilly (same should apply to Ryze EQ bullshit), then there would be some counterplay to it. Right now, she can just spam away without a care in the world because of Tear and Cata passive when she takes damage.

Yeah i get what you mean,but ever since the healing nerf on conq it doesn't feel like it gives alot of healing.I feel like conq is so good mostly because the bonus ap it gives is ridicolous,not the healing.Most of the times Rav hunte gives me FAR more healing than conq,sometimes like 3 times more.

XJ99999999999999Jan 30, 20205 votes

remove conq

SpherezTheManJan 30, 20203 votes

{quoted}

remove conq

Agreed

RagnaveilJan 30, 20206 votes

then what? Force every bruiser and their mother to run Grasp since theres no other runes for them? If you want Conq removed I want FoB.

OHminusJan 30, 20201 votes

Yes.

Conq is broken because of its healing, bring back fervor.

ThefrostyvikingJan 30, 20201 votes

{quoted}

Yes.

Conq is broken because of its healing, bring back fervor.

Fervor is a shit solution.

Works on like half the intended audience of conqueror which leaves too many without a rune to use.

Worse yet, it´s pretty broken on like likes of Darius and some others if i do not remember it wrong.

OHminusJan 31, 20201 votes

If a champ gets gutted because conq gets removed its because they were balanced around the rune

Out of the current champs that take conq: Cassio, Ryze would take phase rush Jax, Darius, Aatrox would take fervor Fiora, Illaoi could take grasp Olaf would take predator J4, Kayn would take electrocute Rek'sai already takes hail of blades

I can't think of a single champ that would suffer from fervor implementation

ThefrostyvikingJan 31, 20203 votes

{quoted}

If a champ gets gutted because conq gets removed its because they were balanced around the rune

Out of the current champs that take conq: Cassio, Ryze would take phase rush Jax, Darius, Aatrox would take fervor Fiora, Illaoi could take grasp Olaf would take predator J4, Kayn would take electrocute Rek'sai already takes hail of blades

I can't think of a single champ that would suffer from fervor implementation

The intended audience for conqueror was melee fighters, it was for them the rune was made in the first place due to it being pointed out they did not have a rune that was good.

Cassio and Ryze already have multiple options so no need to care about them.

Jax and Darius are among the best users of old fervor if i remember it well, Aatrox meanwhile could not use it because he uses abilities too much....do remember that it does not stack of them and if it did it would be utterly broken on Jax and Riven for instance.

Illaoi use grasp? Presently in diamond that rune has 42% winrate and 7% pickrate, clearly it is beyond shit on her.

Fiora can use it decently well but,.......honestly conqueror has a 92% pickrate on her so to me its abundantly clear which of these options is actually favored and considered good.

To my knowledge grasp is not what you pick to win, grasp is what you pick to survive.

Predator is kind of a joke on olaf at this point, he has 99% pickrate on conqueror so it´s abundantly clear which option is actually good, remove conqueror and predator´s pickrate will likely rise but it and olafs winrates will both tank down hard.

Jarvan should not be using electrolute, you wana know why? Because when he does he is playing as an assassin rather than a fighter, remove conqueror and Jarvan is not a fighter anymore.

And now correct me if i am wrong but....Kayn uses electrolute almost exclusively in Shadow assassin form, meanwhile red form uses conqueror since that is the rune for fighters like he is then?

Remove conqueror and red form has been nerfed hard.

Rek sai? Rek sai is an early game cheese assassin that pretends to be a fighter....feel free to thank the balance team for this.

I can't think of a single champ that would suffer from fervor implementation

And that´s the issue, you are not thinking enough at all.

The issue with fervor, as i said, was that it was beyond broken on a few that could use it well and it was subpar on the rest who did not really have any other options.....but even on it´s best users among the melee fighters the marksmen were better still.

Now we have conqueror which truly fits well for the fighter class as it´s main function is just healing and the AD=damage it provides is not that high.

You have an issue with this? [sg-miss-fortune]

OHminusJan 31, 20201 votes

Yes

If I have to take grievous just to deal with a rune then that rune is disgusting

ThefrostyvikingJan 31, 20201 votes

{quoted}

Yes

If I have to take grievous just to deal with a rune then that rune is disgusting

What kind of champions do you play to say this?

A conqueror user does not have to mind i think so it should not be fighters or even skirmishers who use it.

Tanks? Tanks should always get grevious to deal with marksmen lifesteal at any rate so it does not make sense to say this as a tank.

AD Assassins? Most of them will get a last whisper item at any rate so it does not seem like they´d be very bothered......that and they generally do not stand and try to beat fighters in a upfront battle.

Marksman? Possibly, getting mortal reminder against a team with no actual armor stacking frontliner feels bad and getting it early at all is usually not a nice feeling on any of them except MF in my opinion......

AP user? Morello is so strong that most AP types always tend get it or are able to slot it into any build as needed.

Do you happen to main say Rek´sai or some other fighter who already has built in healing like maybe warwick? Or are you a marksman tried of having to get mortal reminder even when most stats on it are wasted?

Well either way, if you want to remove conqueror you´d have to replace it with something that is equally good for all the intended users, personally i find healing much nicer to deal with rather than insane damage or some other wonkey effect that benefits them immensely that i cant do anything about.....

Starcraft243verJan 31, 20201 votes

{quoted}

then what? Force every bruiser and their mother to run Grasp since theres no other runes for them? If you want Conq removed I want FoB.

They'd take PTA i think, 12% more damages is always good

RagnaveilJan 31, 20201 votes

Ok, but what if I cant auto in fights? The rune is useless then.

Starcraft243verJan 31, 20201 votes

A bruiser that can not auto in fights ?

Well, you're screwed even with grasp then, no ?

RagnaveilJan 31, 20201 votes

Yes, try being a melee vs Ashe or Zil as they slow you from afar. Or try going against an ADC with stealth or a fuckton of mobility.

yves21Jan 31, 20201 votes

No, gut it hard on ranged champs. Nobody likes Ryze and Cassio taking conq.

Voluug13Jan 30, 20204 votes

Is Cassio even really ''broken''?

Yes she is good, but she isnt even top 5 midlaners to start calling her ''broken''. There are no stats that show that she is out of line. Her highest winrate is 50-51%, for fuck's sake. She has clear and exploitable weaknesses.

There are literally some 10 or so midlaners that way stronger that she is, starting by like 80% of the assassin pool. She and Malz are about the only mages that are anywhere near relevant in midlane right now.

GrãñðmãstêrShãçøJan 30, 20202 votes

{quoted}

Is Cassio even really ''broken''?

Yes she is good, but she isnt even top 5 midlaners to start calling her ''broken''. There are no stats that show that she is out of line. Her highest winrate is 50-51%, for fuck's sake. She has clear and exploitable weaknesses.

There are literally some 10 or so midlaners that way stronger that she is, starting by like 80% of the assassin pool. She and Malz are about the only mages that are anywhere near relevant in midlane right now.

To be fair, I think that she really is not a problem, I think that the game currently has a way bigger problem, jungle experience points and the current state of toplane.

Voluug13Jan 31, 20202 votes

She isnt a problem, people just really see any actual mage doing decently and go foaming at the mouth.

the Anarchit3chtJan 30, 20204 votes

Unpopular opinions it is not. Factually incorrect it is.

Caretaker JackJan 30, 20202 votes

She has access to those secondary runes because of conq...

Lorenz HellmanJan 31, 20202 votes

revert runes

QuZeed YTJan 31, 20202 votes

Deleted "Unpopular opinion" from the title, because every fucking player who played against Cassiopeia knows that Conqueror isn't the problem

BultzJan 30, 20201 votes

This is a joke right? Conquerors is the reason? Not her broken attack speed? not her over done slows and CC? lol bruh.

SpherezTheManJan 31, 20201 votes

{quoted}

This is a joke right? Conquerors is the reason? Not her broken attack speed? not her over done slows and CC? lol bruh.

She wasn't broken before she started using conq and the precision tree

LordForrestJan 31, 20201 votes

I mean even without Conqueror she could still take Presence of Mind and Legend Tenacity. So not really seeing how that would make a difference if what you are saying is true.

She could take Electrocute or Dark Harvest, Taste of Blood, whichever of the vision ones she wants, Ravenous Hunter and then take Presence of Mind and Legend Tenacity as her secondary. Sure, the keystones aren't the optimal choice, but they aren't the worse either and Taste of Blood adds even more healing.

ŚhunpoJan 31, 20201 votes

Her W is high-key bullshit.

Posui GartJan 31, 20201 votes

To be honest all those Precision runes are only working because Conqueror is good on her. And Conqueror is good on her because she stacks it ridiculously fast. Nobody is supposed to get Conqueror stacked over a single short trade. Would be nice to rework it so that you can't get more than 2 stacks per second. Miasma change made her good against melee all-ins, which I think is ok, but can probably be unfair in mid-late teamfights, considering that the only other counter to her in fights are long-ranged mages and she can now outsustain their damage with conq healing. If nothing else works, making a Bramble Vest GW passive work on spells could solve this problem.

Kiwi LemonadeJan 31, 20201 votes

Its hard for me to hate on her because while she is overbearing at times, she is the only half-decent mage today that can stand up against assassins, and it is solely because of W. The top 10 mid champs for the last... two years+ have been Assassins and maybe specific assassin counters, like Malz and Cass. I think reverting W will put her back on the shelf in highest tier level games, where she was good just not good enough to get over that hurdle to be on a winning team comp in pro play. If she stays this strong she will be, and is currently picked in pro. Maybe thats a bad thing idk.

She was always decent before the conqueror era, but fluttered around 49-50.5% winrate - with a weird niche of dps mage that Ryze typically did better, outranged by other mages before she could get to them, and got bursted down by Assassins that could dodge all of her kit.

You could easily just change conqueror to provide the adaptive force over time after entering/staying in combat with an enemy champion(s). That way certain champions with spammables couldn't cheese the rune and get instant 10 stacks, because its being used as psuedo-burst rune with insane heals that favors spells not autos. Bruisers would still like the rune, and it could get a buff to favor champions that need to be frontliners, not dps mages.

*even with all the great precision tree selections, I still think Conq is the thing that tips Cass from really good to borderline-overpowered. Watching high level Cass streams and I see many popular mid lane picks still go toe-to-toe with her, but every time as soon as she gets to 10 Conq stacks, she wins the fight.

Starcraft243verJan 31, 20201 votes

-Make mages unable to use or nerf conqueror.This change will make her unable to pick the Precision tree and therefore,she won't be able to pick Presece of mind and Legend tenacity

Why couldn't she take presence of mind and legend tenacity as her two secondary runes tree if she does not need conqueror ???

Exodus247Feb 1, 20201 votes

If what you are saying is an unpopular opinion, either you are being yelled at by idiots who have just started playing league and/or have just started abusing cassio, or trennd riders who again, dont know what the fuck they are talking about and hating conq because 'duh it heals fer dmg done and she do lots dmg hurdur', and that actually makes me really sad to see that these are the people riot cater to, and not the people with actual arguments or the mains of these champs like yourself OP. God help us all