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The Question of the Ages: Is Yasuo OP?

Masala Chai·5/1/2018, 3:51:37 PM·15 votes·15,504 views

Hi, everybody! I'm Masala Chai, the wall of text Karma main that sometimes rambles on the Boards. I'd like to address a common point of discussion while being not excessively one-sided or not. Keep an open mind when reading this post because we don't want a devolution and make sure to be vocal about what you think as well.

The opinions vary from "holy crap he is freaking freelo" to "holy crap he is complete garbage". Naturally, there is some selection bias when it comes to working with these opinions, especially since against certain champs he can feel rather oppressive to lane against, especially in the vast majority of games and the other group since they either main Yasuo or have perfected the art of Malzahar and Morgana.

Evidence: Yasuo's current win rate through a spread is approximate 50% at Plat+, the winrate trends upwards as you approach closer to Bronze (some 53%), and less as you approach Diamond+ (roughly 48%). Keep in mind that the median rank for Platinum is somewhere around high P4 and low P3. His global winrate across all elo ranges and regions is approximately 51.6%. Also, Yasuo's P/B percentage when compounding both statistics together is roughly 85% in Bronze, Silver, and Gold, eventually petering out to a 55%~ in high D5. The P/B ratio is the highest in Silver, which makes sense since the average elo of Yasuo mains is roughly Silver II.

Analysis: For the vast majority of the playerbase:

  • Yasuo is probably the best champion to climb low elo with, the skill curve for experience over games player evens out 50% at approximately 8 games played for both Bronze and Silver. A 53%ish winrate in low elo over that many games with that high of a playerbase isn't anything to scoff at. He doesn't have a very high skill floor, but his skill cap is probably one of the most rewarding since he has a rather high delta, but relative to any of the other mechanically-intensive champion in League amongst the likes of Zed, Kalista, RIven, Ryze and Azir, he actually is rather average in that spectrum. More game-sensitive champions, such as Taliyah, Karma, and Galio also have higher match-up deltas when compared to Yasuo. Granted there is some problematic things when comparing high playerbase champions like Yasuo with lower ones like Kalista and Aurelion Sol, since they have extremely low relative playerbases.

  • For the top 10% - 1% of players (P5 to G1 ish) he is relatively balanced and leans a more dependent role on his teammates and individual mechanical play, and then for the 1% he becomes increasingly more of a niche and one-trick pick. (Keep in mind I'm extrapolating this data allocation, so there may be a sharp spike in winrate as we approach the top 0.25%.)

So how will we assume if Yasuo is a balanced champion? We will assume two things:

  • Riot balances the game around mid-Platinum elo. (he certainly is relatively balanced in that arena, especially given his low skill floor)
  • Riot will make sure that champions that pubstomp low elo, or are overly dominant in pro or high elo are kept as closed to balanced in those elos as possible. (not really then, but there is still much to be done)

Other conclusions:

  • Yasuo has one of the most rewarding skill curves when given to the overall curve of mechanical mastery, but definitely not as rewarding for the usage of macro play. He is therefore modestly rewarding and experienced players should be able to find decent success with him.

  • Any further changes to Yasuo should focus on homogenizing his strengths across elos by raising his execution bar and raising the reward he gets when he executes his tools properly. While this would probably make him weaker in low elo, this would hopefully lower his extremely high banrate, reduced player frustration while hopefully keeping what makes Yasuo, Yasuo. Making the people that have tons of experience and skill able to be able to show off their mastery of the champion by rewarding the best Yasuos more than they are currently, but the average Yasuo will have more difficulty in finding success, especially in the lower tiers of Solo Q.

tl;dr Yasuo is probably balanced, but he is more balanced in some elos than in others. Weak in high elo, strong in low elo.

Sources: https://www.lolalytics.com/ https://www.leagueofgraphs.com

36 Comments

Nyarlathοtep5/1/2018, 5:15:58 PM13 votes

Is Yasuo OP?

I prefer the word fundamentally broken/flawed.

DW Diana5/1/2018, 3:55:50 PM13 votes

He's a snowball champion that when ahead is about to 1v5, when behind can 1v1. Is he OP I'd say yes, but only because his kit is overloaded with cc, damage, defence, and mobility.

Dead flag blues5/1/2018, 4:23:50 PM6 votes

Really depends of the current state of the game, atm he is op because of item 3046 item 3031 item 3072 and conqueror (which I'm scared will bring back the "juggernaut" Yasuo)

FurriesAreHot5/1/2018, 6:23:31 PM5 votes

He’s powerful, but has clear weaknesses:

  • feast or famine
  • single, long cool down defensive steroid
  • Squishy without windwall
  • Has no gap closer that can close an empty gap.
  • Relies on getting within melee range without having a bulk to do so

Not saying he isn’t overloaded or anything, Be he isn’t atrociously powerful/OP

Death by Glamour5/1/2018, 4:23:25 PM4 votes

Now arguably yes.

Phantom dancer gives him alot of hidden tankiness amd conqueror is a sizable damage buff to someone who has 100% crit damage after 2 items

Grunt6665/2/2018, 4:07:55 AM3 votes

He is badly broken, and only struggles at the very top levels of play because of how incredible the teamwork and micro is. I mean his passive alone are obscenely broken lol. 50% crit rate bonus, a short duration refreshing shield that absorbs tonnes of hp's, and another classic riot "melee" champion that actually is not very melee at all, big auto range, and all abilities that are yup RANGED, and that also nullify range or allow him to close any range to make range meaningless.

TempName748145/1/2018, 7:53:40 PM3 votes

he was op when his e stacked up to 4 times and when it triggered fervor, but since then he's been "okay" .... with some exceptions ######(frozenforce)

he used to have a low win rate but high kill rate at every rank, but ever since conqueror, he's had a high winrate in bronze and silver, and a middling winrate in real ranks

conqueror made him just another yi, but now statistics in bronze validate bronze opinions

Rico Nasty5/1/2018, 8:21:36 PM3 votes

I think his kit is just fundamentally flawed. Not only does he have far too many mechanics in his kit, but a lot of them contradict each other. His kit overall just feels like you told a B5 12-year-old that they could create a champion with no limits and so they just put everything in the kit. However, he has very decent counterplay. His tornado moves slow as shit. But boy, does that muthafuka snowball or what. He seriously cannot be shut down after 5 kills.

MorganFreemanBot5/1/2018, 7:07:04 PM2 votes

No.

Yasuo's a well designed champion who has extremely clear moments of power (defensive and offensive), which makes him very easy to read and understand. He lacks the offensive and defensive power which most of his class holds, exchanging them for a gimmick (projectile blocking) which can range from game changing to useless, but is easily played around.

He has an average to poor early game and a poor late game. He spikes hard in the mid game but it's all he does; and he's not difficult to shut down or deny. He's also unusually dependent on his team, meaning that he can make big plays off of them but really suffers if they're not in his corner.

Most of the jargon about Yasuo being broken, toxic, overloaded, ect ect comes from low skill players who have no interest in examining their own play patterns, and instead want to blame every loss and every mistake on something external.

Zed genius5/1/2018, 3:56:48 PM2 votes

The Question of the Ages: Is Yasuo OP?

No, yasuo hasn't been overpowered since his nerf on the q stack duration and E damage

Subject 55/1/2018, 9:45:52 PM2 votes

There was a guy in #1 Korea that answered this question that essentially sounded like this: "Yasuo's strength and weakness is him being too OP. If you can manage to control him, he is insane." Seen it on a Dong Huap Video.

oXtEBernie5/2/2018, 2:37:19 AM2 votes

After seeing that new IE on the pbe, I am 100% yasuo will be the most broken champ in the game, Conqueror True dmg+ Ie True dmg, he'll be the best champ into tanks LMAO.

heroikc5/1/2018, 5:08:02 PM2 votes

You can squash him with tanks like Poppy in top (Done it many times) and with Annie and Veig in mid. All rather inexpensive and easy champs.

RyzeTheSmurfMage5/1/2018, 3:56:59 PM2 votes

He is a nightmare against some champions, if you are playing Ryze and Yasuo is at least decent you are dead.

Anomandarist5/1/2018, 10:18:08 PM1 votes

I don't think he is really overpowered, but I do think he can be overbearing. Which wouldn't be a problem except for the fact that it seems he has a lot of training wheels for a champ that I believe should have a higher skill ceiling. After all it is one thing to be outplayed by a good player making use of their tools(cough Shaco mains cough), but it is completely different to be out played because of a programmed item advantage that is not inherent to his theme.

Such as his matched 401k crit chance. Could you imagine the complaints if any other champion had the ability to build two crit items, and be maxed out on it, champs such as Garen, or Gangplank, Master Yi, or even an ADC.

Also his ult interaction while his target is under tower seems a bit too safe, since it forcefully puts him out side of tower range. I understand why it was done since he is also forced to stay in one spot until its completion, kinda like Renektons w, and it has such a major restriction to activate, but this gives him a way to tower dive without having to fully commit.

I do think these upsides are more detrimental to how his play style should reward good Yasuo players vs bad Yasuo players. How often is it that a bad Yasuo goes 0/10 KDA but finishes his second crit item around 20 minutes and than ends the game closer to 10/10 KDA. While a good Yasuo can end the game at a score of something like 15/4 KDA. I believe by removing the crit matching you would allow for a greater difference between a riskier carry build vs a safer but more durable fighter build and being able to select the right one for the match. This would open up design space to add power to other parts of his kit such as returning the full value of his crits, upping the base damage on his abilities, allowing his dash and his ult to crit as well, or even making his crit damage value higher to emphasize that wind cutting to the bone feeling.

With his ult, to take off the training wheels, I believe the correct solution is to shorten how long he himself is air born with the enemies. I would suggest changing his ult animation to be a two slash hit with the speed of the two hits scaling with his attack speed where by having enough attack speed will put you on the ground faster, but still retains the rest of the ults abilities, minus the tower dive training wheels, with less damage from the ult. This change will allow him to keep his ult bonuses of bonus armor pen, maintaining the knock up for 1 additional second, shortens his time in an unresponsive state, better synchronizes his swift as the wind theme with his play style, and gives better skill expression as a player by than making the correct follow up attacks on the right enemy while they are still air born.

chipndip15/1/2018, 9:11:52 PM1 votes

NO

Reanimatrix5/1/2018, 9:30:08 PM1 votes

I have noticed that unlike any other champ he ether goes 1/10 ir 10/1.

Zëd Lęppelin5/1/2018, 9:38:24 PM1 votes

TL;DR: The way I play him, def not.

GinormousVner5/1/2018, 7:07:11 PM1 votes

Not even close to it.

Not unless you're playing Bronze/Silver. No metric out there supports the notion that he's OP, his win rate is sub 50%, his pick rate in competitive is non existent pretty much, high elo players consider him junk status compared to other mid/top laners and he's all around, way to skill reliant to ever be outright OP. Yassuo right now (one of the better Yasuo players), also considers him pretty shit right now.

warpenguin5555/1/2018, 7:10:39 PM1 votes

IMO He's not normally OP, but he's always a pain in the ass

Pumakam5/1/2018, 7:51:46 PM1 votes

I think he's balanced if you know how to play against him and don't really depend on skill shots to deal with him, but as somebody who has been trying to play more mid laners like TwistedFate it's extremely unfun to play against as he just windwalls and invalidates 100% of your kit while it's up. The fact that it blocks all projectiles makes it extremely frustrating due to how many skill shots count as projectiles. Also at low elo when your jungler is doing whatever the hell they please it gets super annoying to have to deal with the mobility and wave clear he has to shove you under turret and what do most people say to do against Yasuo ? Camp his lane which almost no jungler does, no matter how hard he's shoving the lane in

Steel Blossom5/2/2018, 3:48:21 AM1 votes

I'm a Talon onetrick. You can check my match histories. My W can be blocked my Yasuo's W, and my R will disappear completely if I cast it near Windwall as well. Furthermore, in a matchup of a good Talon player against a good Yasuo player, the Yasuo will win 100% of the time simply because higher micro skill ceiling = more tools to win fights. Yasuo can also afford at least one tank item late game, which is at least one more than what a Talon can afford, so I will never ever be able to duel him past a certain stage of the game regardless of gold.

With all that said, I've never banned that champion in a single game. His weaknesses(unreliable ult, no real escapes, tendency to shove wave just from trading, etc etc) are so exploitable, and the fact that I took the time to play him in casual games allows me to understand what the enemy Yasuo will throw at me. I've lost lane and game to a good number of Yasuo players, but each time I did, I know that I could have played better at specific points of the game. I will freely admit that his damage is a bit overbearing currently, but that has more to do with Conqueror being strong than anything in Yasuo's kit.

Vlada Cut5/1/2018, 8:06:43 PM1 votes

This is why I'm glad I main Yasuo so I can show Yasuo his way to trash can. Jokes aside, it's not the champ that's good or bad, he's both depending how the player plays him. Just like my darling Camille would say: "It's not the weapon that defines you, but how you wield it".