Mages aren't strong anymore midgame like they used to be.

Skycrowx·2/27/2018, 1:03:53 PM·27 votes·1,986 views

I keep seeing posts of how mages are strong "Midgame" while the Adc is strong lategame. In my opinion this was the case but isn't anymore. I'm Playing league of Legends since season 4, and there is clearly something different and it's not just that mages deal less dmg, that i don't think that this statement today is wrong. Adcs in season 4-5 had no waveclear whatsoever. Today they have huge waveclear and extra dmg (shiv) for no reason at all. This indeed makes the mage midgame WORSE. Why? Simple, a adc can just 1aa click and the entire wave is gone that the mage tries to push in, at the same time, since the adc only has to click once, he is much saver and it's way harder to engage on him, this allows the adc Player to do alot more things on his own, but at the same time, this feels unfair to the mage Player. So riot made a update on the Ap itemization, and yes there are some good things, however it's not adressing the real Problems that our class has.

First off i have to say Goodjob riot you indeed helped us slightly with ludens as a starting item, or archangel staff, but there was no way you could honestly make it even Worser compared to Season 6 or 7. I want to count one certain thing out that makes our class being So weak to solo carry games. Ap <- Almost every item today gives us only 80AP on average, while back in the day we could shift our build to snowball mod, and we could buy 120Ap items. Meanwhile riot thinks mages are to weak lategame, so they keep shifting the power into voidstaff and rabadons which is not the Problem. The changed rabadons build path is good. the 40% ap scaling however is garbage, rabadons should give less ap Scaling, and voidstaff should give less penetration. At the same time there should be much more Ap items that give us around 100Ap on average so that it balances out for 6 items. We are currently way to weak with 1-2 Full items in our inventory.

(i feel much stronger lategame compared to midgame as a mage right now, and we are suppossed to be bad lategame, i think alot of Players have not realised this yet, but i think that the midgame is just even worse now)

Do you Guys think you are stronger midgame or lategame on a Mage currently?

33 Comments

Disembark2/27/2018, 1:55:45 PM10 votes

Mage item rework pushed them from mid game to late game.

Geshultz2/27/2018, 8:08:58 PM4 votes

Well, sorry to burst your bubble. Stattik shiv has been in the game since preseason season 3. Meaning ADCs during seasons 3- modern day have had access to waveclear and burst if they wanted to buy the item. The main difference was back then it was an item that had an even stronger mid game spike off of the item; however, it had a worst late game scaling then today's stattik shiv. Though currently mages itemization does exist for mid game carries and late game carries. It is just that not all mages are mid game carries. Example, Velkoz Xerath Ahri are all mid game carries that fall off towards late game as poke becomes less effective as the game goes on and for ahri it becomes harder to hit a charm against an important target. Well, past 35 minutes things like Veigar Cassiopeia start to take over the game.

Evil Bisex Plant2/27/2018, 2:33:11 PM4 votes

I don't agree on one part and that is that we don't need penetration: We do. Because (and you can see this the easiest on ARAMs where the fact just punches you in your face, but on SR it's still very visible aswell) any MR item will completely fuck us - that's why the only good APs rn are those with % health damage ( Brand ) and those that are able to easily shove 24/7 ( Anivia Malzahar ), otherwise every sigle one of them gets steamrolled by tanks that only need item 3194 - an item noone still realized is busted af ("But it provides less HP than item 3065 !" Who cares? It makes you completely immute to APs, you don't need health).

And I'm not saying APs should kill tanks easily, I'm only saying it's bullshit that ADCs are overbearing to mages at the same time, which is indeed unfair. And unless Riot actually brings Marksmen early game power/overall power/power against squishies down, there's no other option than not only preserve the MPen, but actually introduce more items with it (same as Last Whisper options).

That and also bring back mana regen because that is the single thing that makes new mana items shit - either you have 0 sustain with Echo or 0 damage with Archangel's and I did not test GLP yet but geez every of those suck compared to previous patch Morello - the only item that was comparable to every other class' items with strength.

iPooUnicorns2/27/2018, 5:32:16 PM4 votes

Mages are don't seem to be the powerhouses midgame they used to be because Riot decided that catchup XP should be a thing.

CasterGilgamesh2/27/2018, 4:38:54 PM3 votes

my problem is people keep saying mages abuse items when in reality mages have no choice in their builds in the first place wtf abusing items would mean you have a choice of what to build there arent enough ap items riot took a good step in the right direction by adding one new mage item but its not enough we need more mage items we need more variety that can support more build paths

ƒrostγ2/27/2018, 8:04:20 PM3 votes

Riot loves their adc wayy too much. They made supps op too just to make sure they remain the strongest class in the game.

Poske2/27/2018, 8:03:17 PM3 votes

Well Uhm midlane is still the most popular role I dont want a damage spike due to that

Glory972/27/2018, 5:33:24 PM2 votes

Mages are only weak if you directly compare them to adcs. And imo the new item spellbinder is damn good for a solid midgame powerspike

LightIsMyPath2/27/2018, 2:20:08 PM2 votes

I honestly don't mind the shift of power because playing in low elo I tend to reach late game way more than I should. However it doesn't make much sense delaying our powerspike when we can't compete with ADC relevance later on.. Still the other day I reached 1046 AP on an average build with a stacked mejai and rabadon and I was literally crying for happiness.. So nice being able to reliably buy Rabadon and go for the heavy AP build after all this time when I would have 300..

Pika Fox2/27/2018, 6:45:35 PM2 votes

I dont understand the point of your post....

The only ADC who can just right click clear a wave mid game is Sivir. Shiv on its own isnt going to clear a wave. Hurricane on its own isnt going to clear a wave. The ADC needs AT LEAST IE + either or to clear a wave fast just via auto attacks.

Handy Sandy 2/27/2018, 10:18:53 PM2 votes

Mages are supposed to be a lategame class. That's why we have the option of choosing AP assassins or AD assassins to play mid for the early game.

Peritheus2/28/2018, 2:16:00 PM1 votes

Definitely Late game, midgame isn't so great for some mages, while buffing a few who synergize with the reworked ap items as it was a indirect nerf to early game, especially most off ap "supports".(if you aren't an ap snowbally early- mid game assassin with great base dmg like Akali Diana who rely on getting takedowns to smoothly transition into late game build) so I just have to rush a item 1058 into item 3089 aka not spend my 500g at the start in order to actually waveclear to barely keep up against others cs they earned through kills, turrets,and assists etc as the minions powercreep so hard you can just miss all the cs/still struggle to waveclear with abilities while others have an easier time. If I stopped csing around mid game and roamed got nothing done, I just threw my barely lead and become obsolete for the rest of mid game and forced to wave clear againnn that is, If I'm even allowed to hit late game in games that are supposed to be 15-30 min games already decided by 1st turret, 1st blood, 1st bot roams, while feeling like Nasus except without the amazing powerspike midgame nor his early game dominance at lvl 6 but to be called useless early to mid, since a nasus at lategame ain't gonna touch their mobile carrys with their metric ton shields and heals, + maxed out cc cdr, I gotta rely on cs or snowballs early as much as possible.

Skycrowx2/27/2018, 4:51:04 PM1 votes

I think one good thing that riot could do, is removing the ms boost of spellbinder and just give it 20extra Ap, or they increase the duration of the Active. It would even be better if they handicap the stacks to 50 but give us 7-8seconds rather than just 4. The main current problem i have with spellbinder, if i look at it, it is a snowball item for second. However once u hit 3 items, you are already worser if u have it in probably, and the snowball effect of it is really risky. You have to get the stacks, you have to abuse the only 4 seconds on it, and if u waste it well, you wasted it. Immo i don't even understand why it has ms on it. The item is 80% pure damage, so why giving it a ms boost? give it more base ap and make it a true snowball Ap item. If they would change that, they would help us out so much. [sg-lux-2]

And as i said again, i'm at least happy they startet to change some things up, and understood that mages aren't so "good" like others always claim. But there is still much work to be done in my opinion

Shablagoo2/27/2018, 6:33:59 PM1 votes

These mage posts get worse and worse every time till the point were they literally dont even make sense. First of all you going to say that because Adc players have wave clear Mages have worse wave clear? How does that even follow? If trist has a shiv and lux is on the other team, when trist pushes her wave in "one click" Lux will be able to push he wave with one e too? So statik shiv has better wave clear then morg,anivia, xerath, syndra, Karthus... do I need to go one literally almost every mage has great wave clear shiv does not take this from the. Also do you have any proof that mage dmg is any less, also lesss compaed to what?

Leaf on Bush2/27/2018, 7:42:34 PM1 votes

All champions can become relevant mid game. Some champions get even better in late game while others fall off.

It's just unrealistic to think that anyone would enjoy a champion that stays useless in early and mid game. For the sake of balance and pick variety everyone is allowed to be more or less of a mid game powerhouse.

IT3etlWEXJ2/27/2018, 10:38:42 PM1 votes

God forbid.

Śhunpo2/28/2018, 8:13:20 AM1 votes

But they are.....

Mages are legit one shotting scrubs with these new items. If you don't believe me try out Orianna and build Luden's->Morello's->Deathcap.

greekvandaL2/27/2018, 1:27:19 PM1 votes

My swain hue