Re-suggesting a Lissandra passive concept I made last time they looked at her (11 months ago?)

Illâoi Evê Siôn·2/16/2018, 12:31:39 AM·1 votes·178 views

The title was "Lissandra passive suggestion from someone who only plays her in ARAM if he doesn't have any rerolls". Here's the copied thread:

The main reason why I never play Lissandra is because, in my opinion, she isn't a witch (also I suck at playing Lissandra). She has this huge Dark Ice theme going on in her lore and design and yet we never see any of that in her gameplay. All she does is CC people, the same as all other Ice-Freljord champions out there. Ergo, Lissandra is just as much of a witch as Anivia, Braum, or Ashe. Sure, she bursts people, but that's not very witch-y either. I want to see debuffs, curses, corruption! And I hope that could be expressed through a new passive:

##Passive - Dark Ice:
Lissandra's spells afflict enemy champions with stacks of Dark Ice that attempts to corrupt them over time. If successful, consumes all stacks of Dark Ice to deal magic damage, briefly slow the target, and reduce their Magic Resistance for 4 seconds. If Lissandra is nearby, the duration of Dark Ice stacks refresh. Ring of Frost and Frozen Tomb speed up the corruption process.

  • Corruption: If Lissandra managed to keep at least one stack of Dark Ice on her target for 10/8/6 seconds (at levels 1/7/13) the effect triggers.
  • Ring of Frost: Speeds up Corruption process by 1 second.
  • Frozen Tomb: Speeds up Corruption process of target enemy by 1.5 seconds.
  • Dark Ice: Max. 3 stacks, each stack lasts for 2 seconds and they fall off one at a time.
  • Ice Witch: If Lissandra is within 900 range when a stack would fall off, the duration refreshes instead.
  • Damage: 9 (+3 per level) (+0.1 Ability Power) magic damage per stack
  • Debuff: 10/15/20/25 (at levels 1/6/11/16) reduced Magic Resistance for 4 seconds.
  • Corruption Cooldown: 12 second static cooldown on target if Dark Ice was successful.
  • Resistance Cooldown: 4 second static cooldown on target if Dark Ice was unsuccessful.

##Q - Ice Shard:

  • Cone Damage: 70/100/130/160/190 (+0.7 Ability Power) magic damage --> 60/85/110/135/160 (+0.6 Ability Power) magic damage over 1.5 seconds (3 ticks)

##General:

  • Mana Regen: 5.67 +0.4/level --> 6 +0.8/per level

##Explanation:

I don't play Lissandra, but I'm pretty sure that those of you who do don't like the Q nerf I suggested because it would mess up her wave clear. I am also sure that you're all awesome players who would manage to wave clear wonderfully even if it did get nerfed.

But why nerf it? Because we need to shift power from elsewhere in her kit to finance her new, impactful passive. You lose 10/15/20/25/30 (+0.1 Ability Power) damage per 6 to 3 seconds on secondary targets in exchange for a potential 36 -- 108 (+0.3 Ability Power) (at level 9 matching Ice Shard's rank 5) damage once per fight that also reduces enemies' Magic Resistance by 10/15. That really helps a Burst Mage. Also, that Magic Resistance reduction also applies to anyone else who just happened to be nearby while you were bursting down your target, so it will help you fight afterwards, too. And it will help allied Mages.

Even so, I tried nerfing Ice Shard in a way that will still benefit Lissandra. By making her Q cone deal damage over time it resets the Dark Ice duration twice on the second and third ticks, increasing the duration of your first Dark Ice stack from 2 to 3 seconds. That gives you time to test the waters and reposition yourself into the 900 range radius to refresh the Dark Ice duration. Before level 7, just this -- poking with Q cone + walking up to them within 3 seconds -- takes care of half the duration you need in order to proc Dark Ice. If you chain up a W (which adds another second) and another Q, or poke them with an E, or just stick close you should be able to proc it and use the slow and magic resistance reduction to greatly increase your trading potential in lane. This might be harder to do against slippery enemies in the early game, like Zed or Fizz, or against long ranged enemies, but I think a little more counterplay is better than a little less. You have to adapt how you play against every enemy you face, after all.

So what's up with that Dark Ice stuff? Well, the concept is this: Lissandra tries to corrupt/freeze/hurt enemies with Dark Ice and she needs time to do that so she needs to stick close to them or keep damaging them with spells. If she manages to do that, she slows them, damages them a little, and reduces their Magic Resistance. The Magic Resistance reduction and damage help her burst squishier targets. It's not supposed to help as much against Tanks, so that's why the reduction and damage are both flat. I didn't want to reward her for just accidentally hitting an enemy with her W while she was trying to burst her target, so I added up to 3 stacks that the damage depends on. She'll easily get those stacks on her main target, and depending on how the teamfight goes, I imagine she'll get at least 2 stacks on nearby enemies. For all other cases, one stack alone shouldn't be enough to ensure that Dark Ice procs. If it doesn't proc, you get a 4 second immunity. If it does proc, one stack won't do a lot of damage.

OK, so how do you make it work? I already explained how I envision the laning phase might work out against enemies she can trade consistently with. But even against enemies who are hard to trade with, Dark Ice can have use. See, the stacks fall off one at a time. So hitting an enemy with 3 spells automatically creates 6 seconds worth of corruption (or 7 if you hit W). If Lissandra hits a slippery enemy with a Q cone and follows up in time with a E and W she can automatically ensure that the enemy will be damaged by at least one stack of Dark Ice (3 + 3 + 2 + 2). If she times it right, she can use the brief, Trundle-esque slow to land a Q. The Magic Resistance reduction lasts for 4 seconds so even if the enemy is slowed far away under their tower, once they get back to lane Lissandra still has time to hurt them.

From level 7 onwards this is easier to manage because the duration of the corruption time is reduced to 8 seconds and she has access to her ult which speeds up the corruption process by another 1.5 seconds. Q + W + R --> 3 stacks and 2.5 upfront corruption --> 8.5 seconds worth of corruption. This combo automatically ensures that the enemy will be hit by at least one stack of Dark Ice even if you die immediately afterwards. If they get away, they'll most likely get hit by 2 stacks of Dark Ice and you can use the debuff to catch up to them and finish them off.

From level 13 onwards, using Dark Ice to actually help burst an enemy quickly should be possible. Maybe not a squishy if you're ahead. They usually die from Q + W + R + Q anyways. Maybe a Diver?

##Conclusion

Dark Ice may not work as quickly as an Assassin's effect, but it should still work for her Burst Mage identity. If she sets it up beforehand, she can use the MR reduction to burst her target more easily. In the fray, she can use it as a tool to finish off opponents.

Doesn't this add too much damage to her kit? In my opinion, yes. I may not play Lissandra, but I've seen Lissandra with a lead E up to an enemy Marksman and delete them. If it did turn out to be too powerful, the effect itself could always be nerfed or Lissandra's other abilities could sacrifice some damage (like her E).

However, I also think this change creates another weakness for Lissandra on its own: Mana management. Even with buffing her Mana Regen up to standard Mage levels, I think Lissandra might have issues managing her Mana without her current passive. If she uses her ultimate to refill her own Mana, she won't be able to use it to empower Dark Ice. If she buys items to manage her Mana for her, she will lose out on an item lead and possibly the damage required to nuke enemies (but maybe Dark Ice will make up for that?).

This is all speculation anyways, but I would love to hear your thoughts on this concept and any concepts you've had for a new passive. Was I completely off the mark by giving her damage and not a shield or something with more utility? I opted for damage because of her Burst Mage classification, but a similar passive could be used to give Lissandra a shield or any other reward like a Mana restore or a heal.

Thanks for reading, anyways.

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