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Catch-Up Experience Is Unhealthy for Competitive Play

AShortJoke·9/10/2017, 11:51:46 PM·80 votes·3,625 views

The way I see it, catch-up experience in the jungle is just a giant safety net for bad junglers. Just had a game where I was Vi and the enemy Graves invaded my blue buff level 1 and took it, so I responded by taking literally his entire bot side jungle, catching him at his red buff and killing him. Over the course of the game I stole each of his camps at least once, some more than that, had more kill participation than him, yet he was always on par with me in experience. For all of the mid game, I literally had double his farm, I am not exaggerating. Catch-up experience makes it absolutely pointless to out-jungle your opponent because they'll just catch up to you in experience immediately because of this ridiculous system riot has in place. Most low elo junglers "counterjungle" by running into your jungle quick, taking one camp, usually a buff, then running off again. Historically, this has been considered bad counterjungling because a good jungler will just counter-invade you like I did, but with catch-up experience now being a thing, it honestly amounts to about the same thing as actually properly counterjungling your opponent. Riot needs to remove this from the game so it stops hurting competitive play, because all it does is bail out bad jungle play.

68 Comments

SweedishGunner9/11/2017, 1:14:49 AM24 votes

They talked about it in today's NA LCS, Kobe (or Jatt) was saying about how he's seen complaints about catch up XP but no one ever mentions the gold deficit.

Even if he's the same level as you, you're going to be way up in gold which in theory should make you more useful.

Death by Glamour9/11/2017, 12:20:03 AM14 votes

You actually want more snowball?

Jet Sett9/11/2017, 6:23:34 AM11 votes

That seems good on paper (except for the gold disparity you're ignoring) but that just means you'd be able to counter jungle them to the point where they're useless. You should NOT be able to invalidate to that point ever. It'd make junglers who have a slower clear or less dueling ability completely irrelevant after any disadvantage.

Ahri Body Pillow9/11/2017, 4:14:42 AM7 votes

Please keep the catch up xp, this games already just a huge snowball fest

dominusx9/11/2017, 3:26:46 PM6 votes

what do you mean when i'm kha'zix with 190cs and the enemy yi has 100 and he is still only one level below me when i have more KP than him? That's fine. It's also fine when i try some fucktarded risky play get punished and still remain on par with xp with the other guy who powerfarmed while i died.

LexLutheran879/11/2017, 1:17:16 PM5 votes

Do you want games to snow ball?because without catch-up, there is only snowball... worse than it already is.

Be satisfied with your snowballed gold from positive play, gold is more multiplicative of power than xp anyway.

Games are better quality when the enemy still has some agency to get back in the game, and vice versa.

Danjeng9/11/2017, 4:59:51 AM4 votes

If there was no catch up experience, junglers would just farm for days, which isn't very fun.

If you took every enemy camp at least once, you would end up with a large gold advantage, along with a buff advantage for your team (assuming you're nice enough to give your allies buffs), and more map presence.

I think Graves got a lot of farm from lanes, because he beat you out in cs.

Bionic Jellyfish9/11/2017, 4:49:20 AM4 votes

here's an actual counterjungling tip from a bronzie: dont just take all the monsters in his camp. instead, if possible, leave a small one so the enemy jungler only gets that tiny amount of gold and exp, then has to wait for it to respawn. do that for every camp possible. it may make a difference

I Main Swain9/11/2017, 6:55:04 PM4 votes

imo it would be unhealthy to remove it entirely, i remember the old days of sejuani (when she was actually more fun to play imo) when her early game was super vulnerable along with a lot of other junglers to the extent that if someone invaded or if she got a bad leash she would just be out of the game, straight up she would have to spend every moment until like 20-30 minutes trying to stay caught up in gold and experience. imo they should have it only activate if youre way behind.

MLDzXnRRR9/11/2017, 1:45:51 PM2 votes

Without this catchup xp, you won't be able to comeback after being camped by a Lee, Kha, Shaco or something similar. They will kill you at red and noone will come to help, then the game is over for you. In LCS or high elo your team will probably help warding and come to help secure objectives, but in soloQ you can afk in the fountain, because after you die once, expect that Lee to just continue camping you. The invades are disgraceful and demoralizing, I can't see how someone can be proud winning a game by being a bitch. Also, let's not forget that these people that camp the enemy jungle probably won't gank and the enemy laners can still win the 4v4 laning phase.

Kyunsei9/11/2017, 9:36:37 AM2 votes

It isn't only unhealthy for competitive play, it is unhealthy in any level.

The more jungler are high elo, the more they are hindered by catch-up exp mechanic.

Rainfall9/11/2017, 1:26:42 PM2 votes

according to some boarders the game should be determined by a coin flip and all lanes snow ball the same.

Acheron169/11/2017, 7:41:33 PM2 votes

First- you have gold advantage. If you are indeed good then use it Second- Catchup EXp only kicks in when you are like 5 levels behind someone. If they are getting catchup EXP then you have a huge lead. USE IT.

Wigglepufftuff9/11/2017, 7:51:46 PM2 votes

Oooh good idea, this is how we get riot to fix everything. We just say it's bad for esports, and they'll fix it.

SpecterVonBaren9/12/2017, 5:02:25 AM2 votes

Catch up XP seems more like a reward for aggressive junglers since they can gank all day long and then do one or two camps and be up in levels.

muted team chat9/13/2017, 1:42:26 AM1 votes

If you ever fall behind go do raptor and krugs. Boom you just caught up completely.

Weasel Kensei9/11/2017, 4:38:30 PM1 votes

The way I see it, catch-up experience in the jungle is just a giant safety net for bad junglers.

Then they would need to fix autofill.

As best I can tell it still will autofill people into roles that other people in the match qued for as secondary simply because the que time went long enough for it to autofill someone.

Autofill is autolose enough already, so I think some forgivness mechanics should be in place. That said, I think the catch up experience is too high. It really only takes like 6 camps for someone to go from whatever level, to caught up it seems. I think catch up XP needs to be slowed down.

Do also consider that catch up XP is a thing thats supposed to be around for supports who fall behind leaving a lane to ward. If catch up goes away it would be pretty harmful for them also.

The Deckowner9/11/2017, 1:56:16 PM1 votes

They don't need to nerf catchu up exp, they just need to nerf raptor and krugs exp, make the camp give catch up exp as a whole instead of each individual small monster.

Chaosedge9/11/2017, 7:38:20 PM1 votes

Meh, just play Warwick. I'd dare a Lee Sin or Vi to counter jungle me.